A good idea?

[Trevor Wilson]

I was just working on an amp today and pulled a transistor out for testing
(with the very brilliant, Atlas tester). I had a thought: Transistors could
be made with a fourth lead. This lead would allow a sophisticated (but
inexpensive) testers (such as the Atlas) to interrogate devices and
ascertain the manufacturer/specs/etc.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[Phil Allison]

"Trevor Wilson"

I was just working on an amp today and pulled a transistor out for testing
(with the very brilliant, Atlas tester). I had a thought: Transistors could
be made with a fourth lead. This lead would allow a sophisticated (but
inexpensive) testers (such as the Atlas) to interrogate devices and
ascertain the manufacturer/specs/etc.

** But any parts made in Germany would come back with:

" We will ask the questions ..... "

Plus Arab parts would allege Atlas had committed torture and cruelty.



........... Phil

 

[Ken Taylor]

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:42534e9c@news.comindico.com.au...

I was just working on an amp today and pulled a transistor out for testing
(with the very brilliant, Atlas tester). I had a thought: Transistors
could
be made with a fourth lead. This lead would allow a sophisticated (but
inexpensive) testers (such as the Atlas) to interrogate devices and
ascertain the manufacturer/specs/etc.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



Well, if that was all that would be available via the extra leg, why not

just write it on the case? But it's a good idea if they were to, say,
store the actual parameters of that particular device so you could compare
later (and I guess this is what you meant....). Hmmm, we could develop this
concept, but alas, I can't see it happening. Interesting though.

Cheers.

Ken

 

[Rod Speed]

Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au>
wrote in message news:42534e9c@news.comindico.com.au...

I was just working on an amp today and pulled a transistor out for testing
(with the very brilliant, Atlas tester). I had a thought: Transistors could be
made with a fourth lead. This lead would allow a sophisticated (but
inexpensive) testers (such as the Atlas) to interrogate devices and ascertain
the manufacturer/specs/etc.

You do see that approach with the spd on ram
dimms, but I cant see it happening with transistors.

 

[Geoff C]

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in
news:42534e9c@news.comindico.com.au:

I was just working on an amp today and pulled a transistor out for
testing (with the very brilliant, Atlas tester). I had a thought:
Transistors could be made with a fourth lead. This lead would allow a
sophisticated (but inexpensive) testers (such as the Atlas) to
interrogate devices and ascertain the manufacturer/specs/etc.

Not a good idea. No-body (end-user) would want to pay for this. Anyway the
single transistor would then be dozens of transistors, ie an IC which would
have to be on the same substrate... nuh, not worth considering.

 

[Trevor Wilson]

"Ken Taylor" <ken@home.nz> wrote in message
newsFJ4e.16355$1S4.1663855@news.xtra.co.nz...

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:42534e9c@news.comindico.com.au...
I was just working on an amp today and pulled a transistor out for
testing
(with the very brilliant, Atlas tester). I had a thought: Transistors
could
be made with a fourth lead. This lead would allow a sophisticated (but
inexpensive) testers (such as the Atlas) to interrogate devices and
ascertain the manufacturer/specs/etc.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



Well, if that was all that would be available via the extra leg, why not
just write it on the case? But it's a good idea if they were to,
say,
store the actual parameters of that particular device so you could compare
later (and I guess this is what you meant....). Hmmm, we could develop
this
concept, but alas, I can't see it happening. Interesting though.

**Oh, I think the chances are extremely remote. However, such an approach
would, for instance, make life much harder for counterfeiters.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[swanny]

Geoff C wrote:

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in
news:42534e9c@news.comindico.com.au:


I was just working on an amp today and pulled a transistor out for
testing (with the very brilliant, Atlas tester). I had a thought:
Transistors could be made with a fourth lead. This lead would allow a
sophisticated (but inexpensive) testers (such as the Atlas) to
interrogate devices and ascertain the manufacturer/specs/etc.




Not a good idea. No-body (end-user) would want to pay for this. Anyway the
single transistor would then be dozens of transistors, ie an IC which would
have to be on the same substrate... nuh, not worth considering.

I'm surprised no-one has suggested to put a PIC on each transistor, to
monitor a whole rage of parameters in real-time. And while you are at
it, why not add an ethernet port and IP-enable the whole lot? Then you
could check the specs of each device remotely over the Internet ...

 

[Ken Taylor]

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:42538eaa@news.comindico.com.au...

"Ken Taylor" <ken@home.nz> wrote in message
newsFJ4e.16355$1S4.1663855@news.xtra.co.nz...
"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:42534e9c@news.comindico.com.au...
I was just working on an amp today and pulled a transistor out for
testing
(with the very brilliant, Atlas tester). I had a thought: Transistors
could
be made with a fourth lead. This lead would allow a sophisticated (but
inexpensive) testers (such as the Atlas) to interrogate devices and
ascertain the manufacturer/specs/etc.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



Well, if that was all that would be available via the extra leg, why not
just write it on the case? But it's a good idea if they were to,
say,
store the actual parameters of that particular device so you could
compare
later (and I guess this is what you meant....). Hmmm, we could develop
this
concept, but alas, I can't see it happening. Interesting though.

**Oh, I think the chances are extremely remote. However, such an approach
would, for instance, make life much harder for counterfeiters.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au


But you'd only find out it was a counterfeit after you'd bought it, just

like now. They wouldn't even have to make the extra leg do anything in
particular.

Ken

 

[quietguy]

Phil Allison wrote:

"Trevor Wilson"

I was just working on an amp today and pulled a transistor out for testing
(with the very brilliant, Atlas tester). I had a thought: Transistors could
be made with a fourth lead. This lead would allow a sophisticated (but
inexpensive) testers (such as the Atlas) to interrogate devices and
ascertain the manufacturer/specs/etc.


** But any parts made in Germany would come back with:

Plus Arab parts would allege Atlas had committed torture and cruelty.

Aussie parts would simply say ' she'll be right mate';

US parts would ask which country they should bomb next

English parts might ask does it matter if it leaks a little oil

NZ parts might say ' I naid sex ligs ta tist ut'

Irish parts might respond ' who me'?

David

.......... Phil

 

[valiumboy]

Yeah i can see it now.You interrogate the transistor and it replies with
"please report pirated copies to your nearest dealer" just like on DVD's.
Sensational

"Ken Taylor" <ken@home.nz> wrote in message
news:fdM4e.16399$1S4.1666077@news.xtra.co.nz...

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:42538eaa@news.comindico.com.au...

"Ken Taylor" <ken@home.nz> wrote in message
newsFJ4e.16355$1S4.1663855@news.xtra.co.nz...
"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:42534e9c@news.comindico.com.au...
I was just working on an amp today and pulled a transistor out for
testing
(with the very brilliant, Atlas tester). I had a thought: Transistors
could
be made with a fourth lead. This lead would allow a sophisticated
(but
inexpensive) testers (such as the Atlas) to interrogate devices and
ascertain the manufacturer/specs/etc.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



Well, if that was all that would be available via the extra leg, why
not
just write it on the case? But it's a good idea if they were to,
say,
store the actual parameters of that particular device so you could
compare
later (and I guess this is what you meant....). Hmmm, we could develop
this
concept, but alas, I can't see it happening. Interesting though.

**Oh, I think the chances are extremely remote. However, such an
approach
would, for instance, make life much harder for counterfeiters.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au


But you'd only find out it was a counterfeit after you'd bought it, just
like now. They wouldn't even have to make the extra leg do anything in
particular.

Ken

 

[Tim Polmear]

On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 07:26:20 GMT, swanny
<blahgswan3blah@blahbigpond.net.au> wrote:

Geoff C wrote:

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in
news:42534e9c@news.comindico.com.au:


I was just working on an amp today and pulled a transistor out for
testing (with the very brilliant, Atlas tester). I had a thought:
Transistors could be made with a fourth lead. This lead would allow a
sophisticated (but inexpensive) testers (such as the Atlas) to
interrogate devices and ascertain the manufacturer/specs/etc.




Not a good idea. No-body (end-user) would want to pay for this. Anyway the
single transistor would then be dozens of transistors, ie an IC which would
have to be on the same substrate... nuh, not worth considering.

I'm surprised no-one has suggested to put a PIC on each transistor, to
monitor a whole rage of parameters in real-time. And while you are at
it, why not add an ethernet port and IP-enable the whole lot? Then you
could check the specs of each device remotely over the Internet ...

Egads! I've been trying to develop such an arrangement, except for
monitoring zero ohm links!!! Do you know how much the extra patents
are going to cost me if I have to protect intellectual property on
monitoring technology for transistors, diodes, leds, pcb pads, spst
switches, dpdt switches, capacitors ...

 

[Ken Taylor]

"swanny" <blahgswan3blah@blahbigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:waM4e.1633$5F3.942@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

Geoff C wrote:

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in
news:42534e9c@news.comindico.com.au:


I was just working on an amp today and pulled a transistor out for
testing (with the very brilliant, Atlas tester). I had a thought:
Transistors could be made with a fourth lead. This lead would allow a
sophisticated (but inexpensive) testers (such as the Atlas) to
interrogate devices and ascertain the manufacturer/specs/etc.




Not a good idea. No-body (end-user) would want to pay for this. Anyway
the
single transistor would then be dozens of transistors, ie an IC which
would
have to be on the same substrate... nuh, not worth considering.

I'm surprised no-one has suggested to put a PIC on each transistor, to
monitor a whole rage of parameters in real-time. And while you are at
it, why not add an ethernet port and IP-enable the whole lot? Then you
could check the specs of each device remotely over the Internet ...

Nice! The logical extension of it all.....

Ken

 

[Alex Gibson]

"Ken Taylor" <ken@home.nz> wrote in message
news:qYO4e.16426$1S4.1670966@news.xtra.co.nz...

"swanny" <blahgswan3blah@blahbigpond.net.au> wrote in message


I'm surprised no-one has suggested to put a PIC on each transistor, to
monitor a whole rage of parameters in real-time. And while you are at
it, why not add an ethernet port and IP-enable the whole lot? Then you
could check the specs of each device remotely over the Internet ...

Nice! The logical extension of it all.....

Ken

No , it would need wireless.

Quite a few of the top of the line fpgas come with ethernet in them.
Xilinx vertex4 FX with up to 4 10/100/1000 ethernet macs and ppc cores
http://www.xilinx.com/products/tables/virtex4.htm

Also altera stratix2 claims a 10GB ethernet XSBI using 16bit LVDS

Someone jokingly suggested adding wireless and one of the reps
said it was being looked at for future products.

A few of you guys may be interested in XFest2005
http://www.memec.com/?cmd=detail&articleid=1724
http://www.memec.com/?cmd=detail&articleid=2099#australia

For cheap fpga boards (other than for XFest)
http://www.xilinx.com/products/spartan3/s3boards.htm
http://www.xilinx.com/products/spartan3e/s3eboards.htm
are made by
www.digilentinc.com also for addon modules

Alex

 

[Trevor Wilson]

"Geoff C" <notinterestedin@spam.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9630A266B4456testnospamcom@61.8.0.29...

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in
news:42534e9c@news.comindico.com.au:

I was just working on an amp today and pulled a transistor out for
testing (with the very brilliant, Atlas tester). I had a thought:
Transistors could be made with a fourth lead. This lead would allow a
sophisticated (but inexpensive) testers (such as the Atlas) to
interrogate devices and ascertain the manufacturer/specs/etc.



Not a good idea. No-body (end-user) would want to pay for this. Anyway the
single transistor would then be dozens of transistors, ie an IC which
would
have to be on the same substrate... nuh, not worth considering.

**The cost would be insignificant. Particularly with high power devices.
However, I agree that the chances of seeing would be remote.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[Franc Zabkar]

On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 07:26:20 GMT, swanny
<blahgswan3blah@blahbigpond.net.au> put finger to keyboard and
composed:

Geoff C wrote:

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in
news:42534e9c@news.comindico.com.au:


I was just working on an amp today and pulled a transistor out for
testing (with the very brilliant, Atlas tester). I had a thought:
Transistors could be made with a fourth lead. This lead would allow a
sophisticated (but inexpensive) testers (such as the Atlas) to
interrogate devices and ascertain the manufacturer/specs/etc.




Not a good idea. No-body (end-user) would want to pay for this. Anyway the
single transistor would then be dozens of transistors, ie an IC which would
have to be on the same substrate... nuh, not worth considering.

I'm surprised no-one has suggested to put a PIC on each transistor, to
monitor a whole rage of parameters in real-time. And while you are at
it, why not add an ethernet port and IP-enable the whole lot? Then you
could check the specs of each device remotely over the Internet ...

It doesn't seem right that a PIC can cost less than a single
transistor, but that's economics ...


- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.

 

[Ken Taylor]

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:42545311$1@news.comindico.com.au...

"Geoff C" <notinterestedin@spam.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9630A266B4456testnospamcom@61.8.0.29...
"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in
news:42534e9c@news.comindico.com.au:

I was just working on an amp today and pulled a transistor out for
testing (with the very brilliant, Atlas tester). I had a thought:
Transistors could be made with a fourth lead. This lead would allow a
sophisticated (but inexpensive) testers (such as the Atlas) to
interrogate devices and ascertain the manufacturer/specs/etc.



Not a good idea. No-body (end-user) would want to pay for this. Anyway
the
single transistor would then be dozens of transistors, ie an IC which
would
have to be on the same substrate... nuh, not worth considering.

**The cost would be insignificant. Particularly with high power devices.
However, I agree that the chances of seeing would be remote.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

It'd be almost reasonable in high-power or exotic (read: expensive) parts,

as distinct from common-ordinary-garden variety stuff. If it was a standard
chip used in a whole swag of devices then the cost would be minimal. If, if,
if (as my dad says: "If your Aunt had balls, she'd be your uncle.")

Ken

 

[Trevor Wilson]

"Ken Taylor" <ken123@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:OZY4e.16541$1S4.1686007@news.xtra.co.nz...

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:42545311$1@news.comindico.com.au...

"Geoff C" <notinterestedin@spam.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9630A266B4456testnospamcom@61.8.0.29...
"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in
news:42534e9c@news.comindico.com.au:

I was just working on an amp today and pulled a transistor out for
testing (with the very brilliant, Atlas tester). I had a thought:
Transistors could be made with a fourth lead. This lead would allow a
sophisticated (but inexpensive) testers (such as the Atlas) to
interrogate devices and ascertain the manufacturer/specs/etc.



Not a good idea. No-body (end-user) would want to pay for this. Anyway
the
single transistor would then be dozens of transistors, ie an IC which
would
have to be on the same substrate... nuh, not worth considering.

**The cost would be insignificant. Particularly with high power devices.
However, I agree that the chances of seeing would be remote.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

It'd be almost reasonable in high-power or exotic (read: expensive) parts,
as distinct from common-ordinary-garden variety stuff. If it was a
standard chip used in a whole swag of devices then the cost would be
minimal. If, if, if (as my dad says: "If your Aunt had balls, she'd be
your uncle.")

**It is usually the more expensive parts which attract counterfeiters.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[Ken Taylor]

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:42546210@news.comindico.com.au...

"Ken Taylor" <ken123@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:OZY4e.16541$1S4.1686007@news.xtra.co.nz...
"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:42545311$1@news.comindico.com.au...

"Geoff C" <notinterestedin@spam.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9630A266B4456testnospamcom@61.8.0.29...
"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in
news:42534e9c@news.comindico.com.au:

I was just working on an amp today and pulled a transistor out for
testing (with the very brilliant, Atlas tester). I had a thought:
Transistors could be made with a fourth lead. This lead would allow a
sophisticated (but inexpensive) testers (such as the Atlas) to
interrogate devices and ascertain the manufacturer/specs/etc.



Not a good idea. No-body (end-user) would want to pay for this. Anyway
the
single transistor would then be dozens of transistors, ie an IC which
would
have to be on the same substrate... nuh, not worth considering.

**The cost would be insignificant. Particularly with high power devices.
However, I agree that the chances of seeing would be remote.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

It'd be almost reasonable in high-power or exotic (read: expensive)
parts, as distinct from common-ordinary-garden variety stuff. If it was a
standard chip used in a whole swag of devices then the cost would be
minimal. If, if, if (as my dad says: "If your Aunt had balls, she'd be
your uncle.")

**It is usually the more expensive parts which attract counterfeiters.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

If I see it happen, I'll remember I heard it here first: the Wilson Inbuilt

Modular Protection device. Don't abbreviate.

Cheers.

Ken

 

[Terry Given]

Trevor Wilson wrote:

"Ken Taylor" <ken@home.nz> wrote in message
newsFJ4e.16355$1S4.1663855@news.xtra.co.nz...

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:42534e9c@news.comindico.com.au...

I was just working on an amp today and pulled a transistor out for
testing
(with the very brilliant, Atlas tester). I had a thought: Transistors

could

be made with a fourth lead. This lead would allow a sophisticated (but
inexpensive) testers (such as the Atlas) to interrogate devices and
ascertain the manufacturer/specs/etc.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au




Well, if that was all that would be available via the extra leg, why not
just write it on the case? But it's a good idea if they were to,
say,
store the actual parameters of that particular device so you could compare
later (and I guess this is what you meant....). Hmmm, we could develop
this
concept, but alas, I can't see it happening. Interesting though.


**Oh, I think the chances are extremely remote. However, such an approach
would, for instance, make life much harder for counterfeiters.

Yeah right. They'd just counterfeit the 4th leg.

Its a stupid idea - add cost to every single part, so that if a device
fails, each component can be interrogated to find out what it was. A
colossal waste of money. Not to mention the fact that you only really
care about the *faulty* component, and if its faulty whats to stop the
fault from interfering with the ID. Murphy ensures that will always occur.

Best not to think about the reason for service manuals and BOMs....

Cheers
Terry

 

[Trevor Wilson]

"Terry Given" <my_name@ieee.org> wrote in message
news226e.17378$1S4.1752874@news.xtra.co.nz...

Trevor Wilson wrote:
"Ken Taylor" <ken@home.nz> wrote in message
newsFJ4e.16355$1S4.1663855@news.xtra.co.nz...

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:42534e9c@news.comindico.com.au...

I was just working on an amp today and pulled a transistor out for
testing
(with the very brilliant, Atlas tester). I had a thought: Transistors

could

be made with a fourth lead. This lead would allow a sophisticated (but
inexpensive) testers (such as the Atlas) to interrogate devices and
ascertain the manufacturer/specs/etc.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au




Well, if that was all that would be available via the extra leg, why not
just write it on the case? But it's a good idea if they were to,
say,
store the actual parameters of that particular device so you could
compare
later (and I guess this is what you meant....). Hmmm, we could develop
this
concept, but alas, I can't see it happening. Interesting though.


**Oh, I think the chances are extremely remote. However, such an approach
would, for instance, make life much harder for counterfeiters.



Yeah right. They'd just counterfeit the 4th leg.

**They could, but it may not be worth the effort. Don't forget what that 4th
leg is connected to.

Its a stupid idea - add cost to every single part, so that if a device
fails, each component can be interrogated to find out what it was.

**That is not the only reason for the extra leg.

A

colossal waste of money.

**Nope.

Not to mention the fact that you only really

care about the *faulty* component, and if its faulty whats to stop the
fault from interfering with the ID. Murphy ensures that will always occur.

**Indeed. Read what I actually wrote though.

Best not to think about the reason for service manuals and BOMs....

**And again.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au