G
Gareth Magennis
Guest
There will be Brownie points awarded to anyone who can demonstrate the
boiling of a drop of wine using 5 volts.
Gareth.
boiling of a drop of wine using 5 volts.
Gareth.
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M
mike
Guest
On 1/6/2013 11:58 AM, Gareth Magennis wrote:
Do I get ice cream with my brownie?There will be Brownie points awarded to anyone who can demonstrate the
boiling of a drop of wine using 5 volts.
Gareth.
put that drop of wine on remnants of solder flux. It's likely more than 5V.
J
Jeff Liebermann
Guest
On Sun, 6 Jan 2013 19:58:04 -0000, "Gareth Magennis"
<sound.service@btconnect.com> wrote:
that's about 0.1 ohms. The available current at 5V can be at least 3
time the charger current since the internal switching regulator steps
the 19V down to 5V. I'll guess a conservative 6 amps. The voltage
doesn't matter.
Power = I^2 * R = 6^2 * 0.1 = 3.6 watts
That will burn your finger and melt the plastic. If you don't believe
me, find a small 1/2 watt resistor, attach to a power supply so that
it dissipated a few watts, and notice that it will burn your finger
nicely after a few seconds. It may take a while to boil a few drops
of water but it eventually will do so.
Let's grind the numbers.
1 ounce of water = 28.35 grams
To raise the water temperature to boiling point, you will need:
Calories = Mass * (Tboil - Troom)
= 28.35 grams * (100C - 25C) = 2120 calories
To turn this into steam:
Steam = Mass * calories
= 28.35 * 540 = 15300 calories
Total energy needed to steam 1 oz of water:
Total = Heat + Steam
= 2120 + 15300 = 17420 calories
1 KW-hr = 860424 calories:
Calories = 17420 / 860424 = 20.2 W-hrs
If your heater can generate about 3 watts, it will take:
Time to boil 1 oz of water = 20.2 Watt-hrs / 3 Watts = 7 hrs
Less than an oz of water will take proportionally less. There are
roughly 250 drops of water in an ounce of water (using the drippy
faucet model). Therefore, one drop of water will take:
Time to boil 1 drop with 3 watts = 7 hrs / 250 = 1.7 minutes
Please ship the brownies to the address below.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
<sound.service@btconnect.com> wrote:
Sure. Take a typical PCB trace that's about 4" long. My guess(tm),There will be Brownie points awarded to anyone who can demonstrate the
boiling of a drop of wine using 5 volts.
that's about 0.1 ohms. The available current at 5V can be at least 3
time the charger current since the internal switching regulator steps
the 19V down to 5V. I'll guess a conservative 6 amps. The voltage
doesn't matter.
Power = I^2 * R = 6^2 * 0.1 = 3.6 watts
That will burn your finger and melt the plastic. If you don't believe
me, find a small 1/2 watt resistor, attach to a power supply so that
it dissipated a few watts, and notice that it will burn your finger
nicely after a few seconds. It may take a while to boil a few drops
of water but it eventually will do so.
Let's grind the numbers.
1 ounce of water = 28.35 grams
To raise the water temperature to boiling point, you will need:
Calories = Mass * (Tboil - Troom)
= 28.35 grams * (100C - 25C) = 2120 calories
To turn this into steam:
Steam = Mass * calories
= 28.35 * 540 = 15300 calories
Total energy needed to steam 1 oz of water:
Total = Heat + Steam
= 2120 + 15300 = 17420 calories
1 KW-hr = 860424 calories:
Calories = 17420 / 860424 = 20.2 W-hrs
If your heater can generate about 3 watts, it will take:
Time to boil 1 oz of water = 20.2 Watt-hrs / 3 Watts = 7 hrs
Less than an oz of water will take proportionally less. There are
roughly 250 drops of water in an ounce of water (using the drippy
faucet model). Therefore, one drop of water will take:
Time to boil 1 drop with 3 watts = 7 hrs / 250 = 1.7 minutes
Please ship the brownies to the address below.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
G
gregz
Guest
"Gareth Magennis" <sound.service@btconnect.com> wrote:
Greg
Get a 5 volt shutter, sun, magnifying glass....There will be Brownie points awarded to anyone who can demonstrate the
boiling of a drop of wine using 5 volts.
Gareth.
Greg
Guest
Hold on. While that is admirable psychomath, you have made a mistake.
The 0.1 ohms is not what it is working into. That would be the resistance of the wine itself. The liquid, somewhat like ethylene glocol in a projection TV should have a negative resistance curve as plotted against time when voltage is applied.
While your calculations are in order so far other than that, we need to know how long it took for the pop pop fizz fizz to happen after the spill.
The other possible error that needs to be considered is that the line in question uses three or four pins of the connector. Granted the 5 V or whatever might pull some current, But the backlight would pull more, at least in wattage. The higher voltage would accelerate the decline of resistance over time. (how do you make the delta sign on a webpage anyway ?)
This could be in error but I think not, the 19 V from the PS is not used directly in the laptop. My batteries say 11.1 V, it is logical to assume that the voltage is preregulated down to at least that for internal use, in fact lower for when it becomes partially discharged.
Also I see no inductor near that ex-regulator on the board so it is logical to assume it is linear. A little SMD like that cannot dissipate much so there is no way it was dropping more than a volt or two even at less than an amp. Also, being linear it cannot put out more current than it draws.
With an 11.1 volt batttery, I would guess that it runs on 9 V internally. Also the lack of an inductor seems to indicate that the chief function of the IC is to turn the inverter on and off. It could be used to dim it but being linear, I tend to doubt it. However the is a reason they didn't just use a transistor, unless they were getting switchable regulators cheaper. I'm sure that happens sometimes.
I think you're damn close, but it needs just a bit of tweaking. I strongly beieve the sequence of events led to the melting plastic which gave up it's carbon. The IC was fine up until the current got too high. Most likely the mixture of stuff in the wine and the plastic was the most conductive. Perhaps it flickered but in the OP's inebriated state he did not notice.
In any case, if I were the owner of the thing I would consider trying to sell the display and use it with a monitor, or perhaps buy one with a broken screen and change it, then pop in his HD and be good to go.
In any case, I think we need to know the time period between the spill and when the smoke escaped to derive an accurate figure.
You know folks have to be careful when offering up brownies :
http://www.thestonerscookbook.com/recipe.php/recipe/special-brownies
The 0.1 ohms is not what it is working into. That would be the resistance of the wine itself. The liquid, somewhat like ethylene glocol in a projection TV should have a negative resistance curve as plotted against time when voltage is applied.
While your calculations are in order so far other than that, we need to know how long it took for the pop pop fizz fizz to happen after the spill.
The other possible error that needs to be considered is that the line in question uses three or four pins of the connector. Granted the 5 V or whatever might pull some current, But the backlight would pull more, at least in wattage. The higher voltage would accelerate the decline of resistance over time. (how do you make the delta sign on a webpage anyway ?)
This could be in error but I think not, the 19 V from the PS is not used directly in the laptop. My batteries say 11.1 V, it is logical to assume that the voltage is preregulated down to at least that for internal use, in fact lower for when it becomes partially discharged.
Also I see no inductor near that ex-regulator on the board so it is logical to assume it is linear. A little SMD like that cannot dissipate much so there is no way it was dropping more than a volt or two even at less than an amp. Also, being linear it cannot put out more current than it draws.
With an 11.1 volt batttery, I would guess that it runs on 9 V internally. Also the lack of an inductor seems to indicate that the chief function of the IC is to turn the inverter on and off. It could be used to dim it but being linear, I tend to doubt it. However the is a reason they didn't just use a transistor, unless they were getting switchable regulators cheaper. I'm sure that happens sometimes.
I think you're damn close, but it needs just a bit of tweaking. I strongly beieve the sequence of events led to the melting plastic which gave up it's carbon. The IC was fine up until the current got too high. Most likely the mixture of stuff in the wine and the plastic was the most conductive. Perhaps it flickered but in the OP's inebriated state he did not notice.
In any case, if I were the owner of the thing I would consider trying to sell the display and use it with a monitor, or perhaps buy one with a broken screen and change it, then pop in his HD and be good to go.
In any case, I think we need to know the time period between the spill and when the smoke escaped to derive an accurate figure.
You know folks have to be careful when offering up brownies :
http://www.thestonerscookbook.com/recipe.php/recipe/special-brownies
J
Jeff Liebermann
Guest
On Sun, 6 Jan 2013 19:37:24 -0800 (PST), jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:
"There will be Brownie points awarded to anyone who
can demonstrate the boiling of a drop of wine using 5 volts."
Nowhere does it require that the current has to go through the wine.
Note that my theory doesn't completely hold water (or wine). The
explosion of two nearby parts suggests that they may be connected in
some manner, perhaps by a wire. However, that's only part of the
problem. Even if I could boil wine with a hot wire, the temperature
necessary to carbonize a 6 pin SOT device is much higher than boiling
wine. Same with melting plastic. Boiling wine just isn't hot enough.
It also begs the question of "where's the wire" which would presumably
be either fused, smoked, or vaporized by the excess current. However,
none of that shows in the photos. My guess(tm) is that it's on the
other side of the motherboard. However, there would not be any wine
puddle on that side. More evidence please.
The neighbors kid just arrived bearing most of the things he's
borrowed in the last year or so. I think he might want something.
Gotta run. More guesswork later.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
I beg to differ. I don't make mistrakes.Hold on. While that is admirable psychomath, you have made a mistake.
Please re-read the challenge.The 0.1 ohms is not what it is working into. That would be the resistance of the wine itself. The liquid, somewhat like ethylene glocol in a projection TV should have a negative resistance curve as plotted against time when voltage is applied.
"There will be Brownie points awarded to anyone who
can demonstrate the boiling of a drop of wine using 5 volts."
Nowhere does it require that the current has to go through the wine.
Note that my theory doesn't completely hold water (or wine). The
explosion of two nearby parts suggests that they may be connected in
some manner, perhaps by a wire. However, that's only part of the
problem. Even if I could boil wine with a hot wire, the temperature
necessary to carbonize a 6 pin SOT device is much higher than boiling
wine. Same with melting plastic. Boiling wine just isn't hot enough.
It also begs the question of "where's the wire" which would presumably
be either fused, smoked, or vaporized by the excess current. However,
none of that shows in the photos. My guess(tm) is that it's on the
other side of the motherboard. However, there would not be any wine
puddle on that side. More evidence please.
The neighbors kid just arrived bearing most of the things he's
borrowed in the last year or so. I think he might want something.
Gotta run. More guesswork later.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Guest
Ah, you're another one who shirks the bullshitting and procrastinating I see.
I say the question was framed such that the boiling of the wine via electrical cureent was what was sought, howevrr I can see how that might not be completely construed properly.
The boiling of the wine of course would remove the H2O, and doing so it would beconme more and more conductive as it would be less dilute. It generated the heat, all this shit produced salts that disolved into the plastic while corroding the conductors.
We still don't know how long this took. That is a part of the equation.
Now, if the OP spilled a glass of wine on the laptop, it must have been near empty. Had we the body weight we could ascertain whether or not one glass of wine would get him drunk enough to not notice the passage of time. However if he was online when it failed, a look at the internet cache would tell the proximate moment. Armed with that data and the OP's regualr schedule, we could possibly venture a guess at the wine consumption rate, and we need to know if it was kept chilled. Shit happens alot faster on warm wine, Bum's theorum. Don't ask how I know this.
Now also we need to know the exact initial conductivity of the wine. then we pass current and see how long it takes to get to overload the regulator.
See, there is the concept of infinity as well. If the surfaces had been very hot in the beginning, the wine may have boiled off before becoming conductive., So we need the OP's location and the meteorological reports for that area at that date and time.
Also, we are on about a quarter mooon, waning tonight, so that means the tide,,,,, wait, without geographical data that means nothing.
Maybe we can substitute barometric pressure for tidal data for now.
Know what I think ? I think he should just jump out that IC, clean the connector and use some scissors or whaever. Connect a separate wire to connect what burnt off and see what happens. The fucker is junk anyway. It may fry the display but it won't fry the mobo, or it might. I think. And maybe if it works just sell the display. I bet the fucker works right now if you plug a monitor into it and remove any shit laying on the board shorting it out.
Hell I got a severely stripped laptop I like to use for Linux sometimes. No display, no HD, I fucked up the keyboard connector and need one of those brown thingies, but fukit because one of the keys is popping up on the other one. (I got three of the same model, one display got broke, one was defective but was too late to return and one got stolen, so I am going to use the keyboard in the other one)
The thing almost has to have VGA output.
I have to admit I'm fucking with you. However I did read a book a while back, some of the very little fiction I have ever read. Final Theory. It is about Einstein and puts forth that he actually unified the theory and the universe is actually two dimensional and all this shit. In it, it is postulated that anything can be predicted. That a roll of the dice, if you know every variable from the temperature, the force in the hand and all the vectors, the elasticity of all the surfaces as well as any imperfections in the dice, everything, you coulld predict it scientifically.
However we will never get all the required parameters, even if we do ever learn how to integrate them properly in a formula.
Oh well.
I say the question was framed such that the boiling of the wine via electrical cureent was what was sought, howevrr I can see how that might not be completely construed properly.
The boiling of the wine of course would remove the H2O, and doing so it would beconme more and more conductive as it would be less dilute. It generated the heat, all this shit produced salts that disolved into the plastic while corroding the conductors.
We still don't know how long this took. That is a part of the equation.
Now, if the OP spilled a glass of wine on the laptop, it must have been near empty. Had we the body weight we could ascertain whether or not one glass of wine would get him drunk enough to not notice the passage of time. However if he was online when it failed, a look at the internet cache would tell the proximate moment. Armed with that data and the OP's regualr schedule, we could possibly venture a guess at the wine consumption rate, and we need to know if it was kept chilled. Shit happens alot faster on warm wine, Bum's theorum. Don't ask how I know this.
Now also we need to know the exact initial conductivity of the wine. then we pass current and see how long it takes to get to overload the regulator.
See, there is the concept of infinity as well. If the surfaces had been very hot in the beginning, the wine may have boiled off before becoming conductive., So we need the OP's location and the meteorological reports for that area at that date and time.
Also, we are on about a quarter mooon, waning tonight, so that means the tide,,,,, wait, without geographical data that means nothing.
Maybe we can substitute barometric pressure for tidal data for now.
Know what I think ? I think he should just jump out that IC, clean the connector and use some scissors or whaever. Connect a separate wire to connect what burnt off and see what happens. The fucker is junk anyway. It may fry the display but it won't fry the mobo, or it might. I think. And maybe if it works just sell the display. I bet the fucker works right now if you plug a monitor into it and remove any shit laying on the board shorting it out.
Hell I got a severely stripped laptop I like to use for Linux sometimes. No display, no HD, I fucked up the keyboard connector and need one of those brown thingies, but fukit because one of the keys is popping up on the other one. (I got three of the same model, one display got broke, one was defective but was too late to return and one got stolen, so I am going to use the keyboard in the other one)
The thing almost has to have VGA output.
I have to admit I'm fucking with you. However I did read a book a while back, some of the very little fiction I have ever read. Final Theory. It is about Einstein and puts forth that he actually unified the theory and the universe is actually two dimensional and all this shit. In it, it is postulated that anything can be predicted. That a roll of the dice, if you know every variable from the temperature, the force in the hand and all the vectors, the elasticity of all the surfaces as well as any imperfections in the dice, everything, you coulld predict it scientifically.
However we will never get all the required parameters, even if we do ever learn how to integrate them properly in a formula.
Oh well.
B
Boris Mohar
Guest
On Sun, 6 Jan 2013 19:58:04 -0000, "Gareth Magennis"
<sound.service@btconnect.com> wrote:
--
Boris
<sound.service@btconnect.com> wrote:
Soldering gunThere will be Brownie points awarded to anyone who can demonstrate the
boiling of a drop of wine using 5 volts.
Gareth.
--
Boris