800+V MOSFET with fast Antiparellel diode

M

Mook Johnson

Guest
I'm looking for some other choices in the 800-1200V MOSFET with a fast
antiparallel diode (trr less than 300nS)

The application is a 150Khz full bridge SMPS running off 300 - 600VDC at
~150Watts.

I can live with highish RDS (1 - 8 ohms) as long as the part is fast
switching (lowish ciss) and fast trr.
I'm trying to aviod external antiparallel diodes across each fet.

I'm familiar with the fets from the following sources and am looking for
more options.

Vishay IR
IR/Omniel
APT
ST
Fairchild
Infinion
IXYS
Onsemi (nothingover 600V)

Are there any other manufacturers I should be looking into for fast
switching high voltage mosfets?

Any IGBTs that can have good efficiency at 150KHz could be considered as
well.
 
"legg" <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote in message
news:l2s114pbrj0afase9smn9troe0p8n5q1f6@4ax.com...
On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 05:19:17 -0500, "Mook Johnson" <mook@mook.net
wrote:

I'm looking for some other choices in the 800-1200V MOSFET with a fast
antiparallel diode (trr less than 300nS)

The application is a 150Khz full bridge SMPS running off 300 - 600VDC at
~150Watts.

Why would you use a full bridge at that power level?
Is this a typo?

RL
Click to expand...
Yes we are using a full bridge at this power level because that is how the
design was originally made.
The MOSFETs used in the original design are hard to get (long lead time) and
I'm looking for suitable replacements.

Is there anything wrong with using full bridge for lower power levels with
high voltage?
 
Greetings MJ..

A side note.

Reference:
"The application is a 150Khz ..."

Megahertz is defined as MHz, kilohertz as kHz and hertz as Hz. It
is, in fact, ALWAYS a capital "H" to pay homage to Mr. Heinrich
Hertz. The first letter of that last name is always capitalized.
Consider: http://www.ideafinder.com/history/inventors/hertz.htm
or,
http://searchnetworking.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid7_gci214263,00.html
or, http://tf.nist.gov/timefreq/general/glossary.htm (click on
"M" or "J-K" - these folks should know the difference)

Further proof? Take a look at www.fcc.gov and note their
frequency references. In addition, simply take a look at a stereo
dial, clock radio or even your transistor radio and notice how
the manufacturers abbreviate frequency.

Cheers,
Mr. Mentor




"Mook Johnson" <mook@mook.net> wrote in message
news:AsmdnRLeHNVT_43VnZ2dnUVZ_qWtnZ2d@comcast.com...
| I'm looking for some other choices in the 800-1200V MOSFET with
a fast
| antiparallel diode (trr less than 300nS)
|
| The application is a 150Khz full bridge SMPS running off 300 -
600VDC at
| ~150Watts.
|
| I can live with highish RDS (1 - 8 ohms) as long as the part is
fast
| switching (lowish ciss) and fast trr.
| I'm trying to aviod external antiparallel diodes across each
fet.
|
| I'm familiar with the fets from the following sources and am
looking for
| more options.
|
| Vishay IR
| IR/Omniel
| APT
| ST
| Fairchild
| Infinion
| IXYS
| Onsemi (nothingover 600V)
|
| Are there any other manufacturers I should be looking into for
fast
| switching high voltage mosfets?
|
| Any IGBTs that can have good efficiency at 150KHz could be
considered as
| well.
|
|
|
 
Greetings MJ..

A side note.

Reference:
"The application is a 150Khz ..."

Megahertz is defined as MHz, kilohertz as kHz and hertz as Hz. It
is, in fact, ALWAYS a capital "H" to pay homage to Mr. Heinrich
Hertz. The first letter of that last name is always capitalized.
Consider: http://www.ideafinder.com/history/inventors/hertz.htm
or,
http://searchnetworking.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid7_gci214263,00.html
or, http://tf.nist.gov/timefreq/general/glossary.htm (click on
"M" or "J-K" - these folks should know the difference)

Further proof? Take a look at www.fcc.gov and note their
frequency references. In addition, simply take a look at a stereo
dial, clock radio or even your transistor radio and notice how
the manufacturers abbreviate frequency.

Cheers,
Mr. Mentor




"Mook Johnson" <mook@mook.net> wrote in message
news:AsmdnRLeHNVT_43VnZ2dnUVZ_qWtnZ2d@comcast.com...
| I'm looking for some other choices in the 800-1200V MOSFET with
a fast
| antiparallel diode (trr less than 300nS)
|
| The application is a 150Khz full bridge SMPS running off 300 -
600VDC at
| ~150Watts.
|
| I can live with highish RDS (1 - 8 ohms) as long as the part is
fast
| switching (lowish ciss) and fast trr.
| I'm trying to aviod external antiparallel diodes across each
fet.
|
| I'm familiar with the fets from the following sources and am
looking for
| more options.
|
| Vishay IR
| IR/Omniel
| APT
| ST
| Fairchild
| Infinion
| IXYS
| Onsemi (nothingover 600V)
|
| Are there any other manufacturers I should be looking into for
fast
| switching high voltage mosfets?
|
| Any IGBTs that can have good efficiency at 150KHz could be
considered as
| well.
|
|
|
 
<snip>

Yes we are using a full bridge at this power level because that is how the
design was originally made.
The MOSFETs used in the original design are hard to get (long lead time)
and
I'm looking for suitable replacements.

Is there anything wrong with using full bridge for lower power levels with
high voltage?

Well, you can cut complexity and many other factors in half simply by
converting to a half bridge, for a start, ( particularly if the output
voltage is appreciably lower than the input - which I suspect is the
case ).

Reverse recovery problems and leakage energy recovery can be
simplified or avoided entirely by using a two-transistor forward ( or
even two-transistor flyback ) converter.

Justification for the original design is really more in order here,
particularly if it's producing problems that seem to require redesign,
now.

RL
Click to expand...
I'd love nothing more than to chnage the design (design is the fun stage)
but this is one of those fire that poped up and they want a replacement
component pronto. The FET in question is an APT1003RKLLG. nonstock te
digikey and all microsemi parts are on do not design in status due to
delivery problems.
 
<snip>

Yes we are using a full bridge at this power level because that is how the
design was originally made.
The MOSFETs used in the original design are hard to get (long lead time)
and
I'm looking for suitable replacements.

Is there anything wrong with using full bridge for lower power levels with
high voltage?

Well, you can cut complexity and many other factors in half simply by
converting to a half bridge, for a start, ( particularly if the output
voltage is appreciably lower than the input - which I suspect is the
case ).

Reverse recovery problems and leakage energy recovery can be
simplified or avoided entirely by using a two-transistor forward ( or
even two-transistor flyback ) converter.

Justification for the original design is really more in order here,
particularly if it's producing problems that seem to require redesign,
now.

RL
Click to expand...
I'd love nothing more than to chnage the design (design is the fun stage)
but this is one of those fire that poped up and they want a replacement
component pronto. The FET in question is an APT1003RKLLG. nonstock te
digikey and all microsemi parts are on do not design in status due to
delivery problems.
 
"legg" <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote in message
news:v8451452lfeokqks2fmcb2t2u1domu1jnl@4ax.com...
On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 16:58:27 -0500, "Mook Johnson" <mook@mook.net
wrote:



I'd love nothing more than to chnage the design (design is the fun stage)
but this is one of those fire that poped up and they want a replacement
component pronto. The FET in question is an APT1003RKLLG. nonstock te
digikey and all microsemi parts are on do not design in status due to
delivery problems.


The original part was 500nS/3.2uC

Placing external antiparallel diodes may not be effective without
series drain diodes to stop parasitic diodes from functioning. I'm
surprised that you are running into this problem at such low current
levels.... should be a few hundred milliamps.....unless you're really
flogging the mag current.

It may not be such a big deal converting a full bridge to a half
bridge or two-transistor forward - its possible that the foil patern
would not have to change - just the magnetics and parts stuffed in
present locations.

Full bridge to half bridge - replace one side of the bridge with film
capacitors, halve the primary turns and lay off current mode in favor
of voltage mode. You can still use current mode influence for ripple
and transient rejection. A little goes a long way. Same 'reverse
recovery' in the fets, though.

Full bridge to two-transistor forward. Replace one phase of fets
(opposite quadrants) with ultrafast rectifiers, reroute secondary
center-tap to antiphase end of secondary, increase secondary rectifier
voltages, and output choke inductance increases by ~3. Reverse
recovery is all in real rectifiers. The old control circuit will limit
switching duty cycle to <50%

RL
Click to expand...

Thanks,

I'll look into it but I'm pretty sure the changes are more than "they" want.
:(

I was hoping to find some that were slightly better thant the APT parts for
reverse recovery but it seams like ~400nS is about as good as it gets.
The design dies work with the APT parts but I was looking for some gains in
noise and efficiency by selecting better mosfets that originally designed
in.

Oh well.
 
"legg" <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote in message
news:v8451452lfeokqks2fmcb2t2u1domu1jnl@4ax.com...
On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 16:58:27 -0500, "Mook Johnson" <mook@mook.net
wrote:



I'd love nothing more than to chnage the design (design is the fun stage)
but this is one of those fire that poped up and they want a replacement
component pronto. The FET in question is an APT1003RKLLG. nonstock te
digikey and all microsemi parts are on do not design in status due to
delivery problems.


The original part was 500nS/3.2uC

Placing external antiparallel diodes may not be effective without
series drain diodes to stop parasitic diodes from functioning. I'm
surprised that you are running into this problem at such low current
levels.... should be a few hundred milliamps.....unless you're really
flogging the mag current.

It may not be such a big deal converting a full bridge to a half
bridge or two-transistor forward - its possible that the foil patern
would not have to change - just the magnetics and parts stuffed in
present locations.

Full bridge to half bridge - replace one side of the bridge with film
capacitors, halve the primary turns and lay off current mode in favor
of voltage mode. You can still use current mode influence for ripple
and transient rejection. A little goes a long way. Same 'reverse
recovery' in the fets, though.

Full bridge to two-transistor forward. Replace one phase of fets
(opposite quadrants) with ultrafast rectifiers, reroute secondary
center-tap to antiphase end of secondary, increase secondary rectifier
voltages, and output choke inductance increases by ~3. Reverse
recovery is all in real rectifiers. The old control circuit will limit
switching duty cycle to <50%

RL
Click to expand...

Thanks,

I'll look into it but I'm pretty sure the changes are more than "they" want.
:(

I was hoping to find some that were slightly better thant the APT parts for
reverse recovery but it seams like ~400nS is about as good as it gets.
The design dies work with the APT parts but I was looking for some gains in
noise and efficiency by selecting better mosfets that originally designed
in.

Oh well.
 
On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 05:19:17 -0500, "Mook Johnson" <mook@mook.net>
wrote:

I'm looking for some other choices in the 800-1200V MOSFET with a fast
antiparallel diode (trr less than 300nS)

The application is a 150Khz full bridge SMPS running off 300 - 600VDC at
~150Watts.

Why would you use a full bridge at that power level?
Click to expand...
Is this a typo?

RL
 
On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:23:27 -0500, "Mook Johnson" <mook@mook.net>
wrote:

"legg" <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote in message
news:l2s114pbrj0afase9smn9troe0p8n5q1f6@4ax.com...
On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 05:19:17 -0500, "Mook Johnson" <mook@mook.net
wrote:

I'm looking for some other choices in the 800-1200V MOSFET with a fast
antiparallel diode (trr less than 300nS)

The application is a 150Khz full bridge SMPS running off 300 - 600VDC at
~150Watts.

Why would you use a full bridge at that power level?
Is this a typo?

RL

Yes we are using a full bridge at this power level because that is how the
design was originally made.
The MOSFETs used in the original design are hard to get (long lead time) and
I'm looking for suitable replacements.

Is there anything wrong with using full bridge for lower power levels with
high voltage?
Click to expand...
Well, you can cut complexity and many other factors in half simply by
converting to a half bridge, for a start, ( particularly if the output
voltage is appreciably lower than the input - which I suspect is the
case ).

Reverse recovery problems and leakage energy recovery can be
simplified or avoided entirely by using a two-transistor forward ( or
even two-transistor flyback ) converter.

Justification for the original design is really more in order here,
particularly if it's producing problems that seem to require redesign,
now.

RL

email by removing 'nospam.' .

http://www.magma.ca/~legg/
 
Mook Johnson wrote:
I'm looking for some other choices in the 800-1200V MOSFET with a fast
antiparallel diode (trr less than 300nS)

The application is a 150Khz full bridge SMPS running off 300 - 600VDC at
~150Watts.

I can live with highish RDS (1 - 8 ohms) as long as the part is fast
switching (lowish ciss) and fast trr.
I'm trying to aviod external antiparallel diodes across each fet.

I'm familiar with the fets from the following sources and am looking for
more options.

Vishay IR
IR/Omniel
APT
ST
Fairchild
Infinion
IXYS
Onsemi (nothingover 600V)

Are there any other manufacturers I should be looking into for fast
switching high voltage mosfets?

Any IGBTs that can have good efficiency at 150KHz could be considered as
well.
Click to expand...
I guess you looked at it already but just in case, the SPD02N80C3 comes
to mind:

http://www.infineon.com/dgdl/SPD02N80C3_Rev.2.4.pdf?folderId=db3a304412b407950112b408e8c90004&fileId=db3a304412b407950112b42cd2e347b1

No idea if anyone makes FETs with diode at this voltage level but I
doubt it. As RL mentioned a full bridge is kind of unusual in this
situation. So maybe the old design could be improved.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
 
On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 16:58:27 -0500, "Mook Johnson" <mook@mook.net>
wrote:

snip


Yes we are using a full bridge at this power level because that is how the
design was originally made.
The MOSFETs used in the original design are hard to get (long lead time)
and
I'm looking for suitable replacements.

Is there anything wrong with using full bridge for lower power levels with
high voltage?

Well, you can cut complexity and many other factors in half simply by
converting to a half bridge, for a start, ( particularly if the output
voltage is appreciably lower than the input - which I suspect is the
case ).

Reverse recovery problems and leakage energy recovery can be
simplified or avoided entirely by using a two-transistor forward ( or
even two-transistor flyback ) converter.

Justification for the original design is really more in order here,
particularly if it's producing problems that seem to require redesign,
now.

RL

I'd love nothing more than to chnage the design (design is the fun stage)
but this is one of those fire that poped up and they want a replacement
component pronto. The FET in question is an APT1003RKLLG. nonstock te
digikey and all microsemi parts are on do not design in status due to
delivery problems.

There's no reason to use parts higher than 800V fets in a full bridge
Click to expand...
with 600V rails, but

TO-220
STP3NK80Z
STP4NK80Z
STP9NK80Z
STP11NM80
STP8NK85Z
STP2NK90Z
STP5NK90Z
STP6NK90Z
STP9NK90Z
STP5NK100Z
STP8NK100Z
STP3N150
STP4N150

TO-220 insulated
STP8NK80ZFP
STP10NK80ZFP
STP3NK90ZFP

are all in stock at Digikey

RL
 
On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 16:58:27 -0500, "Mook Johnson" <mook@mook.net>
wrote:



I'd love nothing more than to chnage the design (design is the fun stage)
but this is one of those fire that poped up and they want a replacement
component pronto. The FET in question is an APT1003RKLLG. nonstock te
digikey and all microsemi parts are on do not design in status due to
delivery problems.
Click to expand...
The original part was 500nS/3.2uC

Placing external antiparallel diodes may not be effective without
series drain diodes to stop parasitic diodes from functioning. I'm
surprised that you are running into this problem at such low current
levels.... should be a few hundred milliamps.....unless you're really
flogging the mag current.

It may not be such a big deal converting a full bridge to a half
bridge or two-transistor forward - its possible that the foil patern
would not have to change - just the magnetics and parts stuffed in
present locations.

Full bridge to half bridge - replace one side of the bridge with film
capacitors, halve the primary turns and lay off current mode in favor
of voltage mode. You can still use current mode influence for ripple
and transient rejection. A little goes a long way. Same 'reverse
recovery' in the fets, though.

Full bridge to two-transistor forward. Replace one phase of fets
(opposite quadrants) with ultrafast rectifiers, reroute secondary
center-tap to antiphase end of secondary, increase secondary rectifier
voltages, and output choke inductance increases by ~3. Reverse
recovery is all in real rectifiers. The old control circuit will limit
switching duty cycle to <50%

RL
 
dBc wrote:
Greetings MJ..

A side note.

Reference:
"The application is a 150Khz ..."

Megahertz is defined as MHz, kilohertz as kHz and hertz as Hz. It
is, in fact, ALWAYS a capital "H" to pay homage to Mr. Heinrich
Hertz. The first letter of that last name is always capitalized.
Consider: http://www.ideafinder.com/history/inventors/hertz.htm
or,
http://searchnetworking.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid7_gci214263,00.html
or, http://tf.nist.gov/timefreq/general/glossary.htm (click on
"M" or "J-K" - these folks should know the difference)

Further proof? Take a look at www.fcc.gov and note their
frequency references. In addition, simply take a look at a stereo
dial, clock radio or even your transistor radio and notice how
the manufacturers abbreviate frequency.

Cheers,
Mr. Mentor




"Mook Johnson" <mook@mook.net> wrote in message
news:AsmdnRLeHNVT_43VnZ2dnUVZ_qWtnZ2d@comcast.com...
| I'm looking for some other choices in the 800-1200V MOSFET with
a fast
| antiparallel diode (trr less than 300nS)
|
| The application is a 150Khz full bridge SMPS running off 300 -
600VDC at
| ~150Watts.
|
| I can live with highish RDS (1 - 8 ohms) as long as the part is
fast
| switching (lowish ciss) and fast trr.
| I'm trying to aviod external antiparallel diodes across each
fet.
|
| I'm familiar with the fets from the following sources and am
looking for
| more options.
|
| Vishay IR
| IR/Omniel
| APT
| ST
| Fairchild
| Infinion
| IXYS
| Onsemi (nothingover 600V)
|
| Are there any other manufacturers I should be looking into for
fast
| switching high voltage mosfets?
|
| Any IGBTs that can have good efficiency at 150KHz could be
considered as
| well.
|
Click to expand...
Uhm, I thought he founded some kind of car rental business.

<ducking for cover>

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
 
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