68000 Beginner

[Kiasanth M'Dra]

Hi all

I'd like to get into electronics but I don't know where to start. I've
searched the net but fount nothing too useful. does anyone know of a
resource for beginners that explains working with the M68000 series chips
with info on making something using roms and ram and all that? I wanna use
68k chips as I already know 68k Assembly language. Any help would be great.

thanks
Kiasanth M'Dra

 

[Clifford Heath]

Kiasanth M'Dra wrote:

I'd like to get into electronics but I don't know where to start. I've
searched the net but fount nothing too useful. does anyone know of a
resource for beginners that explains working with the M68000 series chips
with info on making something using roms and ram and all that? I wanna use
68k chips as I already know 68k Assembly language. Any help would be great.

If you want to build the CPU board, the 68k is the wrong place to start.
You'll have more chance of success with a similarly orthogonal 16-bit chip,
the MSP430 series from TI - it's excellent in many ways.

If you want to build peripherals, 68k might be ok - see zexus.com.hk, I
believe their cheap PDA might be a good starting point.

 

[Mike Harding]

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 13:21:13 +1000, "Kiasanth M'Dra"
<kiasanth@hotmail.com> wrote:

I'd like to get into electronics but I don't know where to start. I've
searched the net but fount nothing too useful. does anyone know of a
resource for beginners that explains working with the M68000 series chips
with info on making something using roms and ram and all that? I wanna use
68k chips as I already know 68k Assembly language. Any help would be great.

The 68000 is certainly not a device I would recommend for
a beginner. For that same reason I doubt there would be
any books available on that device which target the
beginner.

Why not try Motorola's 68HC11 (or newer) series. Most
of those can be configured for external memory usage.
Their core (and thus their assembly language) is
different to the 68000 but it would be good for you to
work with another core too. Failing that the Z80 or the 8051
are fairly easy to design with. All of those CPUs have a
heap of information available much of it aimed at beginners.

Mike Harding

 

[Kiasanth M'Dra]

Mike, by any chance do you make things for poker machines and cigarette
vending machines?

Kiasanth M'Dra

"Mike Harding" <mike_harding1@nixspamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f62rrvcirq81f7arvllkl2kjskmn0k96ao@4ax.com...

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 13:21:13 +1000, "Kiasanth M'Dra"
kiasanth@hotmail.com> wrote:

I'd like to get into electronics but I don't know where to start. I've
searched the net but fount nothing too useful. does anyone know of a
resource for beginners that explains working with the M68000 series chips
with info on making something using roms and ram and all that? I wanna
use
68k chips as I already know 68k Assembly language. Any help would be
great.

The 68000 is certainly not a device I would recommend for
a beginner. For that same reason I doubt there would be
any books available on that device which target the
beginner.

Why not try Motorola's 68HC11 (or newer) series. Most
of those can be configured for external memory usage.
Their core (and thus their assembly language) is
different to the 68000 but it would be good for you to
work with another core too. Failing that the Z80 or the 8051
are fairly easy to design with. All of those CPUs have a
heap of information available much of it aimed at beginners.

Mike Harding

 

[Kiasanth M'Dra]

Well, not only do I already know 68k assembly language but I have a box full
of 68k's currently sitting idle, and I love the 68k since it powerd my old
amiga's so I really did wanna work with them.

to tell ya the truth I guess I don't need the info to be 68k specific, I
just wanna know how to get a CPU (or whatever ther are called in this
industry) ram and roms (with some kind of program on them) to do something,
flash a light, play a tune, control an I.C.B.M.... anything, so I just need
the basics, like what address lines do and data lines etc how to make the
cpu read the roms and do what it's told



Kiasanth M'Dra

"Clifford Heath" <cjh_nospam@managesoft.com> wrote in message
news:1069385790.431580@excalibur.osa.com.au...

Kiasanth M'Dra wrote:
I'd like to get into electronics but I don't know where to start. I've
searched the net but fount nothing too useful. does anyone know of a
resource for beginners that explains working with the M68000 series
chips
with info on making something using roms and ram and all that? I wanna
use
68k chips as I already know 68k Assembly language. Any help would be
great.

If you want to build the CPU board, the 68k is the wrong place to start.
You'll have more chance of success with a similarly orthogonal 16-bit
chip,
the MSP430 series from TI - it's excellent in many ways.

If you want to build peripherals, 68k might be ok - see zexus.com.hk, I
believe their cheap PDA might be a good starting point.

 

[Kiasanth M'Dra]

Never mind, I have you confused with someone with a very simmilar name

thanks for the inf anyway

Kiasanth M'Dra

"Kiasanth M'Dra" <kiasanth@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3fbd96d4$0$13591$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

Mike, by any chance do you make things for poker machines and cigarette
vending machines?

Kiasanth M'Dra

"Mike Harding" <mike_harding1@nixspamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f62rrvcirq81f7arvllkl2kjskmn0k96ao@4ax.com...
On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 13:21:13 +1000, "Kiasanth M'Dra"
kiasanth@hotmail.com> wrote:

I'd like to get into electronics but I don't know where to start. I've
searched the net but fount nothing too useful. does anyone know of a
resource for beginners that explains working with the M68000 series
chips
with info on making something using roms and ram and all that? I wanna
use
68k chips as I already know 68k Assembly language. Any help would be
great.

The 68000 is certainly not a device I would recommend for
a beginner. For that same reason I doubt there would be
any books available on that device which target the
beginner.

Why not try Motorola's 68HC11 (or newer) series. Most
of those can be configured for external memory usage.
Their core (and thus their assembly language) is
different to the 68000 but it would be good for you to
work with another core too. Failing that the Z80 or the 8051
are fairly easy to design with. All of those CPUs have a
heap of information available much of it aimed at beginners.

Mike Harding

 

[Mike Harding]

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 14:38:41 +1000, "Kiasanth M'Dra"
<kiasanth@hotmail.com> wrote:

Mike, by any chance do you make things for poker machines and cigarette
vending machines?

Nope, but I turned down a job with Aristocrat Leisure in Sydney
designing poker machines ten years ago if that's any help And
I gave up smoking 17 years ago - and STILL miss them almost
every day!

And to reply to your other reply:

Well, not only do I already know 68k assembly language but I have a box full
of 68k's currently sitting idle, and I love the 68k since it powerd my old
amiga's so I really did wanna work with them.

I'd forgotten it was in the Amiga and the Apple Mac too, I think?
I first came across it in a Unix box running at 8MHz in about 1983,
we bought it new, it had 512K of RAM and a 45Mbyte hard drive
and use to multi task 4 of us on 9600 baud serial ports - it was
my job to stoke it up with coal each morning

to tell ya the truth I guess I don't need the info to be 68k specific, I
just wanna know how to get a CPU (or whatever ther are called in this
industry) ram and roms (with some kind of program on them) to do something,
flash a light, play a tune, control an I.C.B.M.... anything, so I just need
the basics, like what address lines do and data lines etc how to make the
cpu read the roms and do what it's told

We call them "CPUs" or "Microprocessors" or "You Bastard".
A Microcontroller has peripherals such as timers, A2D
converters etc on board too.

You will need the Motorola Data Book for your particular flavour
of 68000. You may also consider one of the many books on
general digital electronics and microprocessor design. A copy
of The Art of Electronics by Horowitz and Hill would not go amiss
either. You will also need a data book on TTL logic, these days
it will be HC/T or AC logic. You will also need an EPROM
programmer. An oscilloscope will also be (pretty much) essential
for when it doesn't work - which it won't! I suggest you use a slow
ready built crystal oscillator - 2 or 3MHz. You will probably also
need a wire wrap gun to connect the whole lot together.
This is not a trivial task when starting from a knowledge base
of close to zero. It's a bit like saying "I want to learn to drive
so I'll start in a 42 ton truck with a pre-select gearbox with high
and low range and part time all wheel drive" An automatic
Daewoo Lanos would be a lot easier.

Anyway do a search on Amazon or your local library/technical
book shop for the type of book I mention.

Mike Harding

 

[Clifford Heath]

Kiasanth M'Dra wrote:

to tell ya the truth I guess I don't need the info to be 68k specific,

Go to www.olimex.com and buy their MSP430 STK1121 and JTAG FET (or pay more
and save 2 weeks by buying from their distributor in Boronia, Melbourne),
download the free "kickstart" C compiler/debugger from TI. You'll find few
cheaper ways into embedded development, and none of the alternatives are for
16 bit MCUs. You'll feel almost instantly at home with the assembly language,
and the chip will probably go everywhere you want to for a few years at least.
(just a satisfied customer)

 

[Kiasanth M'Dra]

"Mike Harding" <mike_harding1@nixspamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:v27rrvoftdirpq61d55t0l4l6i3igll4th@4ax.com...

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 14:38:41 +1000, "Kiasanth M'Dra"
kiasanth@hotmail.com> wrote:

Mike, by any chance do you make things for poker machines and cigarette
vending machines?

Nope, but I turned down a job with Aristocrat Leisure in Sydney
designing poker machines ten years ago if that's any help And
I gave up smoking 17 years ago - and STILL miss them almost
every day!

My brother works for a simmilar company to that here in QLD, his boss has
almost the same name as you and he's quite the pro with all this stuff. He
gave me a German Poker machine to play with and I'm studying the CPU board
from it (it uses a 68k coincidentally)

And to reply to your other reply:
Well, not only do I already know 68k assembly language but I have a box
full
of 68k's currently sitting idle, and I love the 68k since it powerd my
old
amiga's so I really did wanna work with them.

I'd forgotten it was in the Amiga and the Apple Mac too, I think?
I first came across it in a Unix box running at 8MHz in about 1983,
we bought it new, it had 512K of RAM and a 45Mbyte hard drive
and use to multi task 4 of us on 9600 baud serial ports - it was
my job to stoke it up with coal each morning

My first was an Amiga 500 with 7.14Mhz 68000, 512k ram and no hard drive at
all
it was quite expensive back then, seems silly that I have 12 or 13 of them
today

Macs used 68k's as well, so did Atari's, I have a few old mac's and atari's
as well, some game consoles even used 68000's. Amiga was always my favourite
because of it's power, which it got from it's custom chipset, it could
emulate a mac faster than a real mac could run with the exact same CPU and
ram etc
anyway, I always ramble on when it comes to Amigas

to tell ya the truth I guess I don't need the info to be 68k specific, I
just wanna know how to get a CPU (or whatever ther are called in this
industry) ram and roms (with some kind of program on them) to do
something,
flash a light, play a tune, control an I.C.B.M.... anything, so I just
need
the basics, like what address lines do and data lines etc how to make the
cpu read the roms and do what it's told

We call them "CPUs" or "Microprocessors" or "You Bastard".
A Microcontroller has peripherals such as timers, A2D
converters etc on board too.

haha, I've called many a CPU "You Bastard" when programming for them.

You will need the Motorola Data Book for your particular flavour
of 68000. You may also consider one of the many books on
general digital electronics and microprocessor design. A copy
of The Art of Electronics by Horowitz and Hill would not go amiss
either. You will also need a data book on TTL logic, these days
it will be HC/T or AC logic.

I downloaded all the datasheets etc on the 68k family from motorola
semiconductors and the Mike I know gave me a few books to look at, they are
old but they have general theory of what I can use apparantly.

You will also need an EPROM programmer.

These are a bit expensive for a hobbyist aren't they? besides Mike said he's
do the burning or writing, or whatever you wanna call it, for me

An oscilloscope will also be (pretty much) essential
for when it doesn't work - which it won't!

Being a high-level programmer (high level languages not expert programmer) I
know what you mean, I've only written one thing that worked without
alteration first go in asm.

I suggest you use a slow
ready built crystal oscillator - 2 or 3MHz. You will probably also
need a wire wrap gun to connect the whole lot together.

honestly I don't even know the purpose of the oscillator and all that,
something to do with controlling the speed of the program cycles or
something as far as I can guess.
like I said, I'll have to start with the theory

This is not a trivial task when starting from a knowledge base
of close to zero. It's a bit like saying "I want to learn to drive
so I'll start in a 42 ton truck with a pre-select gearbox with high
and low range and part time all wheel drive" An automatic
Daewoo Lanos would be a lot easier.

hehe, I can't even drive

Anyway do a search on Amazon or your local library/technical
book shop for the type of book I mention.

Mike Harding

thanks Mike, you're a champ

 

[Mike Harding]

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 15:47:49 +1000, "Kiasanth M'Dra"
<kiasanth@hotmail.com> wrote:

You will also need an EPROM programmer.

These are a bit expensive for a hobbyist aren't they? besides Mike said he's
do the burning or writing, or whatever you wanna call it, for me

Trouble is during the early phases you'll be changing the
code and re-burning EPROMs every 5 minutes. Once you
have the hardware, boot code and a basic monitor stable
you can develop in RAM which makes things a lot easier.
For a low cost EPROM programmer take a look at:
http://www.willem.org/
or
http://se-ed.net/mpu51/eprom/eprom.html

I seem to recall someone on this group saying Jaycar and/or
Dick Smith do a cheapish programmer?

An oscilloscope will also be (pretty much) essential
for when it doesn't work - which it won't!

Being a high-level programmer (high level languages not expert programmer) I
know what you mean, I've only written one thing that worked without
alteration first go in asm.

Not sure I've ever written _one_ in the 20+ years since I
started programming

Mike Harding

 

[Michael Smith]

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 13:21:13 +1000, "Kiasanth M'Dra"
<kiasanth@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi all

I'd like to get into electronics but I don't know where to start. I've
searched the net but fount nothing too useful. does anyone know of a
resource for beginners that explains working with the M68000 series chips
with info on making something using roms and ram and all that? I wanna use
68k chips as I already know 68k Assembly language. Any help would be great.

thanks
Kiasanth M'Dra

There were a few designs for 68000 single board computers published in
various electronics magazines in the late eighties if I remember
correctly, they would be a good start

Mike Smith

 

[bruce varley]

Kiasanth M'Dra <kiasanth@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3fbd84ac$0$13591$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

Hi all

I'd like to get into electronics but I don't know where to start. I've
searched the net but fount nothing too useful. does anyone know of a
resource for beginners that explains working with the M68000 series chips
with info on making something using roms and ram and all that? I wanna use
68k chips as I already know 68k Assembly language. Any help would be
great.

thanks
Kiasanth M'Dra

Building your own computer hardware is a tough road to hoe, and there's no

need for it unless it's specifically what you want to do. Have you
considered using preassembled modules, of which there are hundreds around,
and gaining skills in the peripheral activities such as programming and
interfacing (and applying). OK, you may have a pile of old CPU chips, but
dollarwise they're small bikkies compared to your time and the other bits
and pieces you'll need.

 

[Mark Little]

"Kiasanth M'Dra" <kiasanth@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3fbd84ac$0$13591$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

Hi all

I'd like to get into electronics but I don't know where to start. I've
searched the net but fount nothing too useful. does anyone know of a
resource for beginners that explains working with the M68000 series chips
with info on making something using roms and ram and all that? I wanna use
68k chips as I already know 68k Assembly language. Any help would be
great.

Look for an Amiga 500, 1000 or 2000 - they use the 68k chip. Models like the
3000 use the 68030 chip. On the off chance that you are in Adelaide, I have
books on the 68000 and the 68020 families of chips.

regards,
Mark.

 

[Kiasanth M'Dra]

"bruce varley" <bxvarley@weqstnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3fbdef13@quokka.wn.com.au...

Kiasanth M'Dra <kiasanth@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3fbd84ac$0$13591$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
Hi all

I'd like to get into electronics but I don't know where to start. I've
searched the net but fount nothing too useful. does anyone know of a
resource for beginners that explains working with the M68000 series
chips
with info on making something using roms and ram and all that? I wanna
use
68k chips as I already know 68k Assembly language. Any help would be
great.

thanks
Kiasanth M'Dra

Building your own computer hardware is a tough road to hoe, and there's no
need for it unless it's specifically what you want to do. Have you
considered using preassembled modules, of which there are hundreds around,
and gaining skills in the peripheral activities such as programming and
interfacing (and applying). OK, you may have a pile of old CPU chips, but
dollarwise they're small bikkies compared to your time and the other bits
and pieces you'll need.

Honestly the money doesn't bother me, I wanna do it for interests sake, I
already have a job (which has nothing to do with electronics) so it's not
that either. I like the 68k and I wanna do something with it other than
simpley programming software for old OS's

Kiasanth M'Dra

 

[Kiasanth M'Dra]

"Mark Little" <markl@sa.apana.org.au> wrote in message
news:3fbdf15a$1@duster.adelaide.on.net...

"Kiasanth M'Dra" <kiasanth@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3fbd84ac$0$13591$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
Hi all

I'd like to get into electronics but I don't know where to start. I've
searched the net but fount nothing too useful. does anyone know of a
resource for beginners that explains working with the M68000 series
chips
with info on making something using roms and ram and all that? I wanna
use
68k chips as I already know 68k Assembly language. Any help would be
great.

Look for an Amiga 500, 1000 or 2000 - they use the 68k chip. Models like
the
3000 use the 68030 chip. On the off chance that you are in Adelaide, I
have
books on the 68000 and the 68020 families of chips.

regards,
Mark.

thanks for the info, although I am already a huge Amiga fan, I own an
A4000/040, A2000, A1200, A600 and a box full of A500's and I emulate the old
amiga using WinUAE in my windows machine and I also emulate it on my other
PC using Amithlon. I already know how to code in 68k asm and I have all the
tech-sheets on the 68k family from motorola's semiconductors site... oh and
I'm not in adelaide, but other than all that..... thanks for replying
I'm surprised how helpful this group is, most groups ignore my messages and
are only interested when I'm helping them.

thanks
Kiasanth M'Dra

--------------------------------------------------------------------
- in a world without walls and fences, who needs windows or gates?
- Linux is only free if your time has no value
--------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Terry]

Kiasanth M'Dra threw some tea leaves on the floor
and this is what they wrote:

Hi all

I'd like to get into electronics but I don't know where to start.

Electronics is a huge area, I assume you're interested in the area that
involves programming ?

Does the 68000 target imply that you want to do systems programming or
embedded but for the larger chips ?

I've
searched the net but fount nothing too useful. does anyone know of a
resource for beginners that explains working with the M68000 series chips
with info on making something using roms and ram and all that?

The Motorola doc may be the best source of inf there ?

I wanna use
68k chips as I already know 68k Assembly language. Any help would be great.

What will you be using for development hardware ?



--
Kind Regards from Terry
My Desktop is powered by GNU/LinuX, Gentoo-1.4_rc2
New Homepage: http://milkstone.d2.net.au/
** Linux Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **

 

[Kiasanth M'Dra]

"Terry" <tjporter@gronk.porter.net> wrote in message
news:ru8591-9vn.ln1@gronk.porter.net...

Kiasanth M'Dra threw some tea leaves on the floor
and this is what they wrote:

Hi all

I'd like to get into electronics but I don't know where to start.

Electronics is a huge area, I assume you're interested in the area that
involves programming ?

Yeah, I wanna put my 68k assembly language skills to a use other than
programming for old computer systems (early - mid 80's)

Does the 68000 target imply that you want to do systems programming or
embedded but for the larger chips ?

I just wanna have a play and see what the 68k can do outside of the
retro-computers.

I've
searched the net but fount nothing too useful. does anyone know of a
resource for beginners that explains working with the M68000 series
chips
with info on making something using roms and ram and all that?

The Motorola doc may be the best source of inf there ?

Got their docs

I wanna use
68k chips as I already know 68k Assembly language. Any help would be
great.

What will you be using for development hardware ?

I really don't care what it does.... flash a pretty light sequence, play a
tune on a speaker, whatever, I just wanna play with it for now.

--
Kind Regards from Terry
My Desktop is powered by GNU/LinuX, Gentoo-1.4_rc2
New Homepage: http://milkstone.d2.net.au/
** Linux Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **

 

[David L. Jones]

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 17:11:39 +1100, Mike Harding
<mike_harding1@nixspamhotmail.com> wrote:

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 15:47:49 +1000, "Kiasanth M'Dra"
kiasanth@hotmail.com> wrote:

You will also need an EPROM programmer.

These are a bit expensive for a hobbyist aren't they? besides Mike said he's
do the burning or writing, or whatever you wanna call it, for me

Trouble is during the early phases you'll be changing the
code and re-burning EPROMs every 5 minutes. Once you
have the hardware, boot code and a basic monitor stable
you can develop in RAM which makes things a lot easier.
For a low cost EPROM programmer take a look at:
http://www.willem.org/
or
http://se-ed.net/mpu51/eprom/eprom.html

I seem to recall someone on this group saying Jaycar and/or
Dick Smith do a cheapish programmer?

Don't touch it ;-)
An EPROM programmer would be a real pain in the butt. An EPROM
Emulator on the other hand is definitely the way to go. It will allow
you to download your code via, say, the serial port, and it simulates
the EPROM with SRAM. Just connect a ribbon cable were you'd connect
your EPROM. This way you can download and try new code in a matter of
seconds instead of 10s of minutes, which would kill any enthusiam you
may have pretty quickly!

Altronics used to do an EPROM Emulator kit, ready built version too.

Regards
Dave
---------------------------
(remove the "_" from my email address to reply)

 

[Alex Gibson]

"Kiasanth M'Dra" <kiasanth@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:3fbd84ac$0$13591$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

Hi all

I'd like to get into electronics but I don't know where to start. I've
searched the net but fount nothing too useful. does anyone know of a
resource for beginners that explains working with the M68000 series chips
with info on making something using roms and ram and all that? I wanna use
68k chips as I already know 68k Assembly language. Any help would be great.

thanks
Kiasanth M'Dra

For electronics.

a few breadboards, wires, pack or two of assorted resistors,
a few chips like lm555 , few buffers etc.

Art of electronics is good.

Handbook of microcontrollers by Myke Predko
doesn't cover m68000 though.

arrl handbooks are good if you have an interest in radio stuff.



google is the best way to dig up the info your after.

search on the specific thing your after

i.e. 68000 ram interfacing
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclient&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&q=68000+ram+interfacing

also looking for the uni lecture web pages sometimes they can be good
http://cs.wellesley.edu/~cs340/
http://www.cse.sc.edu/~jimdavis/Courses/CSCE-313(Spring03)/68KMB-Lab-Lab11.pdf

also archives of circuit cellar, and similar mags

Alex

 

[Michael]

"Kiasanth M'Dra" <kiasanth@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3fbd84ac$0$13591$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>...

Hi all

I'd like to get into electronics but I don't know where to start. I've
searched the net but fount nothing too useful. does anyone know of a
resource for beginners that explains working with the M68000 series chips
with info on making something using roms and ram and all that? I wanna use
68k chips as I already know 68k Assembly language. Any help would be great.

thanks
Kiasanth M'Dra

If you don't know about busses and address & I/O decoding, then
building an expanded system (ram & rom & I/O external to
microprocessor) is a great way to learn. I did so on a z80 board
called the TEC1.
I would defiantly recommend it over a single chip micro such as the
MSP430. At least until you learn the basics of how computers work.

If you can get A500 schematics, and datasheets for the chips, why not
just work with the A500 board? You could still learn about the
hardware by interfacing some of your own I/O to blink leds and drive
relays or whatever.
I had an A500 when I was a kid, and I was a big fan of it. If I had
the time on my hands I'd be playing with it too. I was especially fond
of its sound capabilities.