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I guess that gives me second thoughts about replacing the lead-acid
batteries in my wheelchair with lithium given the size required...
(Not going to store a $40K chair outside \"just to be safe\"!)
I guess that gives me second thoughts about replacing the lead-acid
batteries in my wheelchair with lithium given the size required...
(Not going to store a $40K chair outside \"just to be safe\"!)
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 8:51:58â¯AM UTC+10, Don Y wrote:
I guess that gives me second thoughts about replacing the lead-acid
batteries in my wheelchair with lithium given the size required...
(Not going to store a $40K chair outside \"just to be safe\"!)
A bike shop is going to have more lithium batteries in one spot than any wheel chair.
The batteries are going to have to get hot enough to go into runaway discharge before they can catch on fire.
A stack of batteries is much more likely to get that hot than any single battery in a wheel chair.
Throw in sloppy habits in the bike shop - repeated over-charging or very fast charging - and it\'s much more likely to get a battery fire than the parking area for your wheel chair. Flyguy can\'t think well enough to recognise these kinds of points. You should be able to do better.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 1:11:57â¯AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 8:51:58â¯AM UTC+10, Don Y wrote:
I guess that gives me second thoughts about replacing the lead-acid
batteries in my wheelchair with lithium given the size required...
(Not going to store a $40K chair outside \"just to be safe\"!)
A bike shop is going to have more lithium batteries in one spot than any wheel chair.
The batteries are going to have to get hot enough to go into runaway discharge before they can catch on fire.
A stack of batteries is much more likely to get that hot than any single battery in a wheel chair.
Throw in sloppy habits in the bike shop - repeated over-charging or very fast charging - and it\'s much more likely to get a battery fire than the parking area for your wheel chair. Flyguy can\'t think well enough to recognise these kinds of points. You should be able to do better.
The fire became deadly when it spread to the apartments above the bike shop, and it occurred late at night when the occupants were probably sleeping.. NYC is very familiar with this scenario. They\'ll start regulating the bike shops when 10,000 people have died.
https://apnews.com/article/new-york-ebike-store-fatal-fire-789d04a128a93160810743acf9c4f893
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 1:11:57?AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 8:51:58?AM UTC+10, Don Y wrote:
I guess that gives me second thoughts about replacing the lead-acid
batteries in my wheelchair with lithium given the size required...
(Not going to store a $40K chair outside \"just to be safe\"!)
A bike shop is going to have more lithium batteries in one spot than any wheel chair.
The batteries are going to have to get hot enough to go into runaway discharge before they can catch on fire.
A stack of batteries is much more likely to get that hot than any single battery in a wheel chair.
Throw in sloppy habits in the bike shop - repeated over-charging or very fast charging - and it\'s much more likely to get a battery fire than the parking area for your wheel chair. Flyguy can\'t think well enough to recognise these kinds of points. You should be able to do better.
The fire became deadly when it spread to the apartments above the bike shop, and it occurred late at night when the occupants were probably sleeping. NYC is very familiar with this scenario. They\'ll start regulating the bike shops when 10,000 people have died.
https://apnews.com/article/new-york-ebike-store-fatal-fire-789d04a128a93160810743acf9c4f893
On Wed, 21 Jun 2023 04:17:04 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 1:11:57?AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 8:51:58?AM UTC+10, Don Y wrote:
I guess that gives me second thoughts about replacing the lead-acid
batteries in my wheelchair with lithium given the size required...
(Not going to store a $40K chair outside \"just to be safe\"!)
A bike shop is going to have more lithium batteries in one spot than any wheel chair.
The batteries are going to have to get hot enough to go into runaway discharge before they can catch on fire.
A stack of batteries is much more likely to get that hot than any single battery in a wheel chair.
Throw in sloppy habits in the bike shop - repeated over-charging or very fast charging - and it\'s much more likely to get a battery fire than the parking area for your wheel chair. Flyguy can\'t think well enough to recognise these kinds of points. You should be able to do better.
The fire became deadly when it spread to the apartments above the bike shop, and it occurred late at night when the occupants were probably sleeping. NYC is very familiar with this scenario. They\'ll start regulating the bike shops when 10,000 people have died.
https://apnews.com/article/new-york-ebike-store-fatal-fire-789d04a128a93160810743acf9c4f893
NYC had over 200 lithium battery fires last year, mostly people
parking bikes and scooters indoors, and a few cell phones exploding.
I\'d expect an Apple or Samsung phone to have high quality batteries
and a cheap scooter to not.
We walked past a garden yesterday that had a pile of the little
solar-charged-LED light things ready to be disposed of. The cheap
batteries die in a year or two.
I guess that gives me second thoughts about replacing the lead-acid
batteries in my wheelchair with lithium given the size required...
(Not going to store a $40K chair outside \"just to be safe\"!)
On Tue, 20 Jun 2023 15:51:45 -0700, Don Y
blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
I guess that gives me second thoughts about replacing the lead-acid
batteries in my wheelchair with lithium given the size required...
(Not going to store a $40K chair outside \"just to be safe\"!)
https://dnyuz.com/2023/06/21/how-e-bike-battery-fires-became-a-deadly-crisis-in-new-york-city/
On Wed, 21 Jun 2023 04:17:04 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 1:11:57?AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 8:51:58?AM UTC+10, Don Y wrote:
I guess that gives me second thoughts about replacing the lead-acid
batteries in my wheelchair with lithium given the size required...
(Not going to store a $40K chair outside \"just to be safe\"!)
A bike shop is going to have more lithium batteries in one spot than any wheel chair.
The batteries are going to have to get hot enough to go into runaway discharge before they can catch on fire.
A stack of batteries is much more likely to get that hot than any single battery in a wheel chair.
Throw in sloppy habits in the bike shop - repeated over-charging or very fast charging - and it\'s much more likely to get a battery fire than the parking area for your wheel chair. Flyguy can\'t think well enough to recognise these kinds of points. You should be able to do better.
The fire became deadly when it spread to the apartments above the bike shop, and it occurred late at night when the occupants were probably sleeping. NYC is very familiar with this scenario. They\'ll start regulating the bike shops when 10,000 people have died.
https://apnews.com/article/new-york-ebike-store-fatal-fire-789d04a128a93160810743acf9c4f893
NYC had over 200 lithium battery fires last year, mostly people
parking bikes and scooters indoors, and a few cell phones exploding.
I\'d expect an Apple or Samsung phone to have high quality batteries
and a cheap scooter to not.
We walked past a garden yesterday that had a pile of the little
solar-charged-LED light things ready to be disposed of. The cheap
batteries die in a year or two.
On Wednesday, 21 June 2023 at 08:08:55 UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jun 2023 04:17:04 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 1:11:57?AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 8:51:58?AM UTC+10, Don Y wrote:
I guess that gives me second thoughts about replacing the lead-acid
batteries in my wheelchair with lithium given the size required...
(Not going to store a $40K chair outside \"just to be safe\"!)
A bike shop is going to have more lithium batteries in one spot than any wheel chair.
The batteries are going to have to get hot enough to go into runaway discharge before they can catch on fire.
A stack of batteries is much more likely to get that hot than any single battery in a wheel chair.
Throw in sloppy habits in the bike shop - repeated over-charging or very fast charging - and it\'s much more likely to get a battery fire than the parking area for your wheel chair. Flyguy can\'t think well enough to recognise these kinds of points. You should be able to do better.
The fire became deadly when it spread to the apartments above the bike shop, and it occurred late at night when the occupants were probably sleeping. NYC is very familiar with this scenario. They\'ll start regulating the bike shops when 10,000 people have died.
https://apnews.com/article/new-york-ebike-store-fatal-fire-789d04a128a93160810743acf9c4f893
NYC had over 200 lithium battery fires last year, mostly people
parking bikes and scooters indoors, and a few cell phones exploding.
I\'d expect an Apple or Samsung phone to have high quality batteries
and a cheap scooter to not.
We walked past a garden yesterday that had a pile of the little
solar-charged-LED light things ready to be disposed of. The cheap
batteries die in a year or two.
They are usually NiMH batteries in those cheap solar garden lights, not Li-Ion
They get run to depletion every night which is a hard life for them.
Finally, wheelchairs have been designed/serviced with
lead acid batteries since... forever. So, changing the
battery chemistry means you are doing something that the
manufacturer hasn\'t endorsed, NOR TESTED (for safety).
Sell the chair -- or, die (unexpectedly?) and have someone
else assume ownership -- and what will they expect from
\"your\" chair? Have you printed a disclaimer on it and/or
suitably modified the wiring and CHARGE CONNECTOR to make
it incredibly obvious that this is no longer an industry
standard (approved!) design? Or, will the new owner just
assume that the charger that accompanied it was designed
to the same standards as those on all other chairs?
[Ignore the moral obligation -- esp if you\'re already dead!]
I.e., electric scooters, cell phones, laptops, EVs, etc.
have firms with lots of staff (and lawyers) to ensure the
safety of the item being sold.
YET STILL MANAGE TO HAVE THESE SORTS OF EVENTS OCCUR!
On 6/21/2023 3:38 PM, Don Y wrote:
Finally, wheelchairs have been designed/serviced with
lead acid batteries since... forever. So, changing the
battery chemistry means you are doing something that the
manufacturer hasn\'t endorsed, NOR TESTED (for safety).
Sell the chair -- or, die (unexpectedly?) and have someone
else assume ownership -- and what will they expect from
\"your\" chair? Have you printed a disclaimer on it and/or
suitably modified the wiring and CHARGE CONNECTOR to make
it incredibly obvious that this is no longer an industry
standard (approved!) design? Or, will the new owner just
assume that the charger that accompanied it was designed
to the same standards as those on all other chairs?
[Ignore the moral obligation -- esp if you\'re already dead!]
I.e., electric scooters, cell phones, laptops, EVs, etc.
have firms with lots of staff (and lawyers) to ensure the
safety of the item being sold.
YET STILL MANAGE TO HAVE THESE SORTS OF EVENTS OCCUR!
Ask yourself how YOU will address these issues with YOUR
(modified) vehicle...
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 3:39:55â¯PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 6/21/2023 3:38 PM, Don Y wrote:
Finally, wheelchairs have been designed/serviced with
lead acid batteries since... forever. So, changing the
battery chemistry means you are doing something that the
manufacturer hasn\'t endorsed, NOR TESTED (for safety).
Sell the chair -- or, die (unexpectedly?) and have someone
else assume ownership -- and what will they expect from
\"your\" chair? Have you printed a disclaimer on it and/or
suitably modified the wiring and CHARGE CONNECTOR to make
it incredibly obvious that this is no longer an industry
standard (approved!) design? Or, will the new owner just
assume that the charger that accompanied it was designed
to the same standards as those on all other chairs?
[Ignore the moral obligation -- esp if you\'re already dead!]
I.e., electric scooters, cell phones, laptops, EVs, etc.
have firms with lots of staff (and lawyers) to ensure the
safety of the item being sold.
YET STILL MANAGE TO HAVE THESE SORTS OF EVENTS OCCUR!
Ask yourself how YOU will address these issues with YOUR
(modified) vehicle...
My batteries are protected from over-voltage and under-voltage, and manually rebalanced/replaced after several cycles. I monitor the temperature and/or smoke signal.
On 6/21/2023 3:48 PM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 3:39:55â¯PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 6/21/2023 3:38 PM, Don Y wrote:
Finally, wheelchairs have been designed/serviced with
lead acid batteries since... forever. So, changing the
battery chemistry means you are doing something that the
manufacturer hasn\'t endorsed, NOR TESTED (for safety).
Sell the chair -- or, die (unexpectedly?) and have someone
else assume ownership -- and what will they expect from
\"your\" chair? Have you printed a disclaimer on it and/or
suitably modified the wiring and CHARGE CONNECTOR to make
it incredibly obvious that this is no longer an industry
standard (approved!) design? Or, will the new owner just
assume that the charger that accompanied it was designed
to the same standards as those on all other chairs?
[Ignore the moral obligation -- esp if you\'re already dead!]
I.e., electric scooters, cell phones, laptops, EVs, etc.
have firms with lots of staff (and lawyers) to ensure the
safety of the item being sold.
YET STILL MANAGE TO HAVE THESE SORTS OF EVENTS OCCUR!
Ask yourself how YOU will address these issues with YOUR
(modified) vehicle...
My batteries are protected from over-voltage and under-voltage, and manually rebalanced/replaced after several cycles. I monitor the temperature and/or smoke signal.
You didn\'t answer my question.
When you opt to sell your vehicle, how will you expect a buyer
to deal with your \"modifications\"? Will you assert that the
car is JUST AS SAFE/reliable as when the dealer produced it?
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 3:53:35â¯PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 6/21/2023 3:48 PM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 3:39:55â¯PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 6/21/2023 3:38 PM, Don Y wrote:
Finally, wheelchairs have been designed/serviced with
lead acid batteries since... forever. So, changing the
battery chemistry means you are doing something that the
manufacturer hasn\'t endorsed, NOR TESTED (for safety).
Sell the chair -- or, die (unexpectedly?) and have someone
else assume ownership -- and what will they expect from
\"your\" chair? Have you printed a disclaimer on it and/or
suitably modified the wiring and CHARGE CONNECTOR to make
it incredibly obvious that this is no longer an industry
standard (approved!) design? Or, will the new owner just
assume that the charger that accompanied it was designed
to the same standards as those on all other chairs?
[Ignore the moral obligation -- esp if you\'re already dead!]
I.e., electric scooters, cell phones, laptops, EVs, etc.
have firms with lots of staff (and lawyers) to ensure the
safety of the item being sold.
YET STILL MANAGE TO HAVE THESE SORTS OF EVENTS OCCUR!
Ask yourself how YOU will address these issues with YOUR
(modified) vehicle...
My batteries are protected from over-voltage and under-voltage, and manually rebalanced/replaced after several cycles. I monitor the temperature and/or smoke signal.
You didn\'t answer my question.
When you opt to sell your vehicle, how will you expect a buyer
to deal with your \"modifications\"? Will you assert that the
car is JUST AS SAFE/reliable as when the dealer produced it?
I don\'t plan on selling it. It\'s worth around $3K to $4K. I would run it down to the ground.
On 6/21/2023 4:14 PM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 3:53:35â¯PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 6/21/2023 3:48 PM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 3:39:55â¯PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 6/21/2023 3:38 PM, Don Y wrote:
Finally, wheelchairs have been designed/serviced with
lead acid batteries since... forever. So, changing the
battery chemistry means you are doing something that the
manufacturer hasn\'t endorsed, NOR TESTED (for safety).
Sell the chair -- or, die (unexpectedly?) and have someone
else assume ownership -- and what will they expect from
\"your\" chair? Have you printed a disclaimer on it and/or
suitably modified the wiring and CHARGE CONNECTOR to make
it incredibly obvious that this is no longer an industry
standard (approved!) design? Or, will the new owner just
assume that the charger that accompanied it was designed
to the same standards as those on all other chairs?
[Ignore the moral obligation -- esp if you\'re already dead!]
I.e., electric scooters, cell phones, laptops, EVs, etc.
have firms with lots of staff (and lawyers) to ensure the
safety of the item being sold.
YET STILL MANAGE TO HAVE THESE SORTS OF EVENTS OCCUR!
Ask yourself how YOU will address these issues with YOUR
(modified) vehicle...
My batteries are protected from over-voltage and under-voltage, and manually rebalanced/replaced after several cycles. I monitor the temperature and/or smoke signal.
You didn\'t answer my question.
When you opt to sell your vehicle, how will you expect a buyer
to deal with your \"modifications\"? Will you assert that the
car is JUST AS SAFE/reliable as when the dealer produced it?
I don\'t plan on selling it. It\'s worth around $3K to $4K. I would run it down to the ground.
PRETEND it was actually worth something...
On 6/21/2023 2:56 PM, Eddy Lee wrote:
For Lithium, depletion is not just hard life, but deadly. I guess e-bike BMS are not that good.
In a wheelchair, there is no battery management system. The
(external) charger bears all of the responsibility for keeping
the battery -- and chair and occupant -- safe. The only
thing the charger can sense is the instantaneous battery
voltage (and, as there should be no load, it can notice
the current flowing out to the battery).
[Ignore the moral obligation -- esp if you\'re already dead!]
I.e., electric scooters, cell phones, laptops, EVs, etc. have firms with lots of staff (and lawyers) to ensure the safety of the item being sold.
YET STILL MANAGE TO HAVE THESE SORTS OF EVENTS OCCUR!
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 4:31:54â¯PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 6/21/2023 4:14 PM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 3:53:35â¯PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 6/21/2023 3:48 PM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 3:39:55â¯PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 6/21/2023 3:38 PM, Don Y wrote:
Finally, wheelchairs have been designed/serviced with
lead acid batteries since... forever. So, changing the
battery chemistry means you are doing something that the
manufacturer hasn\'t endorsed, NOR TESTED (for safety).
Sell the chair -- or, die (unexpectedly?) and have someone
else assume ownership -- and what will they expect from
\"your\" chair? Have you printed a disclaimer on it and/or
suitably modified the wiring and CHARGE CONNECTOR to make
it incredibly obvious that this is no longer an industry
standard (approved!) design? Or, will the new owner just
assume that the charger that accompanied it was designed
to the same standards as those on all other chairs?
[Ignore the moral obligation -- esp if you\'re already dead!]
I.e., electric scooters, cell phones, laptops, EVs, etc.
have firms with lots of staff (and lawyers) to ensure the
safety of the item being sold.
YET STILL MANAGE TO HAVE THESE SORTS OF EVENTS OCCUR!
Ask yourself how YOU will address these issues with YOUR
(modified) vehicle...
My batteries are protected from over-voltage and under-voltage, and manually rebalanced/replaced after several cycles. I monitor the temperature and/or smoke signal.
You didn\'t answer my question.
When you opt to sell your vehicle, how will you expect a buyer
to deal with your \"modifications\"? Will you assert that the
car is JUST AS SAFE/reliable as when the dealer produced it?
I don\'t plan on selling it. It\'s worth around $3K to $4K. I would run it down to the ground.
PRETEND it was actually worth something...
I mean if I have to buy another 2012 Leaf with 5 to 6 bars. I have seen some at low as 3 bars. I am just trying to hold on as long as possible.
The vehicle ECU doesn\'t know about the expansion batteries when estimating bars.