3 point navigation...

H

Hul Tytus

Guest
Anyone know the method for calculating a reciever\'s position from the time
difference between three rf pulse transmiters of known positions? This has
apparantly been in use since the second world war but a description of the
mathematics involved is hiding. Maybe a text on navagation methods?

Hul
 
On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 20:32:34 -0000 (UTC), Hul Tytus <ht@panix.com>
wrote:

Anyone know the method for calculating a reciever\'s position from the time
difference between three rf pulse transmiters of known positions? This has
apparantly been in use since the second world war but a description of the
mathematics involved is hiding. Maybe a text on navagation methods?

Hul
Click to expand...

The old terms and tech (i.e. LORAN) have changed since WWII.
Hyperbolic navigation is still with us, but with the advent of
cellular and ADS-B, it\'s now called MLAT (multilateration), TOA, TDOA
(time difference of arrival), or a multitude of other term. Note that
the GPS system uses the flight time between the GPS receiver and the
known positions of at least 3 GPS satellites.

These should supply a list of buzzwords to research:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multilateration>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True-range_multilateration>
<https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/multilateration>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 20:32:34 -0000 (UTC), Hul Tytus <ht@panix.com>
wrote:

Anyone know the method for calculating a reciever\'s position from the time
difference between three rf pulse transmiters of known positions? This has
apparantly been in use since the second world war but a description of the
mathematics involved is hiding. Maybe a text on navagation methods?

Hul
Click to expand...

The old terms and tech (i.e. LORAN) have changed since WWII.
Hyperbolic navigation is still with us, but with the advent of
cellular and ADS-B, it\'s now called MLAT (multilateration), TOA, TDOA
(time difference of arrival), or a multitude of other term. Note that
the GPS system uses the flight time between the GPS receiver and the
known positions of at least 3 GPS satellites.

These should supply a list of buzzwords to research:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multilateration>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True-range_multilateration>
<https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/multilateration>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 20:32:34 -0000 (UTC), Hul Tytus <ht@panix.com>
wrote:

Anyone know the method for calculating a reciever\'s position from the time
difference between three rf pulse transmiters of known positions? This has
apparantly been in use since the second world war but a description of the
mathematics involved is hiding. Maybe a text on navagation methods?

Hul
Click to expand...

The old terms and tech (i.e. LORAN) have changed since WWII.
Hyperbolic navigation is still with us, but with the advent of
cellular and ADS-B, it\'s now called MLAT (multilateration), TOA, TDOA
(time difference of arrival), or a multitude of other term. Note that
the GPS system uses the flight time between the GPS receiver and the
known positions of at least 3 GPS satellites.

These should supply a list of buzzwords to research:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multilateration>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True-range_multilateration>
<https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/multilateration>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 4:32:40 PM UTC-4, Hul Tytus wrote:
Anyone know the method for calculating a reciever\'s position from the time
difference between three rf pulse transmiters of known positions? This has
apparantly been in use since the second world war but a description of the
mathematics involved is hiding. Maybe a text on navagation methods?
Click to expand...

The only parameter you can determine without a highly directional antenna is the difference in arrival time which places the transmitter on a hyperbola with two receiving antennas at the foci. Add a third antenna and you get intersecting hyperbolæ which will resolve the transmitter\'s location to a point.

But you are asking to locate a receiver from the time difference of arrival of known transmitters. Same problem with the transmitters at the foci. I believe this is the basis of locating a commercial aircraft based on the TACAN signal.

The math is just algebra and trig, solving simultaneous hyperbolic equations. I think two baselines give you only two points as solutions and the remaining baseline resolves between those two.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
 
On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 4:32:40 PM UTC-4, Hul Tytus wrote:
Anyone know the method for calculating a reciever\'s position from the time
difference between three rf pulse transmiters of known positions? This has
apparantly been in use since the second world war but a description of the
mathematics involved is hiding. Maybe a text on navagation methods?
Click to expand...

The only parameter you can determine without a highly directional antenna is the difference in arrival time which places the transmitter on a hyperbola with two receiving antennas at the foci. Add a third antenna and you get intersecting hyperbolæ which will resolve the transmitter\'s location to a point.

But you are asking to locate a receiver from the time difference of arrival of known transmitters. Same problem with the transmitters at the foci. I believe this is the basis of locating a commercial aircraft based on the TACAN signal.

The math is just algebra and trig, solving simultaneous hyperbolic equations. I think two baselines give you only two points as solutions and the remaining baseline resolves between those two.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
 
On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 4:32:40 PM UTC-4, Hul Tytus wrote:
Anyone know the method for calculating a reciever\'s position from the time
difference between three rf pulse transmiters of known positions? This has
apparantly been in use since the second world war but a description of the
mathematics involved is hiding. Maybe a text on navagation methods?
Click to expand...

The only parameter you can determine without a highly directional antenna is the difference in arrival time which places the transmitter on a hyperbola with two receiving antennas at the foci. Add a third antenna and you get intersecting hyperbolæ which will resolve the transmitter\'s location to a point.

But you are asking to locate a receiver from the time difference of arrival of known transmitters. Same problem with the transmitters at the foci. I believe this is the basis of locating a commercial aircraft based on the TACAN signal.

The math is just algebra and trig, solving simultaneous hyperbolic equations. I think two baselines give you only two points as solutions and the remaining baseline resolves between those two.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
 
On Friday, November 19, 2021 at 4:32:40 PM UTC-4, Hul Tytus wrote:
Anyone know the method for calculating a reciever\'s position from the time
difference between three rf pulse transmiters of known positions? This has
apparantly been in use since the second world war but a description of the
mathematics involved is hiding. Maybe a text on navagation methods?
Click to expand...

The only parameter you can determine without a highly directional antenna is the difference in arrival time which places the transmitter on a hyperbola with two receiving antennas at the foci. Add a third antenna and you get intersecting hyperbolæ which will resolve the transmitter\'s location to a point.

But you are asking to locate a receiver from the time difference of arrival of known transmitters. Same problem with the transmitters at the foci. I believe this is the basis of locating a commercial aircraft based on the TACAN signal.

The math is just algebra and trig, solving simultaneous hyperbolic equations. I think two baselines give you only two points as solutions and the remaining baseline resolves between those two.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
 
Thanks Joe, I\'ll take a look.

Hul

Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 20:32:34 -0000 (UTC), Hul Tytus <ht@panix.com
wrote:

Anyone know the method for calculating a reciever\'s position from the time
difference between three rf pulse transmiters of known positions? This has
apparantly been in use since the second world war but a description of the
mathematics involved is hiding. Maybe a text on navagation methods?

Hyperbolic navigation.

.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbolic_navigation

Joe Gwinn
Click to expand...
 
Thanks Joe, I\'ll take a look.

Hul

Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 20:32:34 -0000 (UTC), Hul Tytus <ht@panix.com
wrote:

Anyone know the method for calculating a reciever\'s position from the time
difference between three rf pulse transmiters of known positions? This has
apparantly been in use since the second world war but a description of the
mathematics involved is hiding. Maybe a text on navagation methods?

Hyperbolic navigation.

.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbolic_navigation

Joe Gwinn
Click to expand...
 
Thanks Joe, I\'ll take a look.

Hul

Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 20:32:34 -0000 (UTC), Hul Tytus <ht@panix.com
wrote:

Anyone know the method for calculating a reciever\'s position from the time
difference between three rf pulse transmiters of known positions? This has
apparantly been in use since the second world war but a description of the
mathematics involved is hiding. Maybe a text on navagation methods?

Hyperbolic navigation.

.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbolic_navigation

Joe Gwinn
Click to expand...
 
Thanks Jeff. A collection of the pertinent buzz words can be handy for
searching through records.

Hul

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 20:32:34 -0000 (UTC), Hul Tytus <ht@panix.com
wrote:

Anyone know the method for calculating a reciever\'s position from the time
difference between three rf pulse transmiters of known positions? This has
apparantly been in use since the second world war but a description of the
mathematics involved is hiding. Maybe a text on navagation methods?

Hul

The old terms and tech (i.e. LORAN) have changed since WWII.
Hyperbolic navigation is still with us, but with the advent of
cellular and ADS-B, it\'s now called MLAT (multilateration), TOA, TDOA
(time difference of arrival), or a multitude of other term. Note that
the GPS system uses the flight time between the GPS receiver and the
known positions of at least 3 GPS satellites.

These should supply a list of buzzwords to research:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multilateration
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True-range_multilateration
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/multilateration

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Click to expand...
 
Thanks Joe, I\'ll take a look.

Hul

Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 20:32:34 -0000 (UTC), Hul Tytus <ht@panix.com
wrote:

Anyone know the method for calculating a reciever\'s position from the time
difference between three rf pulse transmiters of known positions? This has
apparantly been in use since the second world war but a description of the
mathematics involved is hiding. Maybe a text on navagation methods?

Hyperbolic navigation.

.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbolic_navigation

Joe Gwinn
Click to expand...
 
On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 20:32:34 -0000 (UTC), Hul Tytus <ht@panix.com>
wrote:

Anyone know the method for calculating a reciever\'s position from the time
difference between three rf pulse transmiters of known positions? This has
apparantly been in use since the second world war but a description of the
mathematics involved is hiding. Maybe a text on navagation methods?
Click to expand...

Hyperbolic navigation.

..<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbolic_navigation>

Joe Gwinn
 
On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 20:32:34 -0000 (UTC), Hul Tytus <ht@panix.com>
wrote:

Anyone know the method for calculating a reciever\'s position from the time
difference between three rf pulse transmiters of known positions? This has
apparantly been in use since the second world war but a description of the
mathematics involved is hiding. Maybe a text on navagation methods?
Click to expand...

Hyperbolic navigation.

..<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbolic_navigation>

Joe Gwinn
 
On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 20:32:34 -0000 (UTC), Hul Tytus <ht@panix.com>
wrote:

Anyone know the method for calculating a reciever\'s position from the time
difference between three rf pulse transmiters of known positions? This has
apparantly been in use since the second world war but a description of the
mathematics involved is hiding. Maybe a text on navagation methods?
Click to expand...

Hyperbolic navigation.

..<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbolic_navigation>

Joe Gwinn
 
On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 20:32:34 -0000 (UTC), Hul Tytus <ht@panix.com>
wrote:

Anyone know the method for calculating a reciever\'s position from the time
difference between three rf pulse transmiters of known positions? This has
apparantly been in use since the second world war but a description of the
mathematics involved is hiding. Maybe a text on navagation methods?
Click to expand...

Hyperbolic navigation.

..<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbolic_navigation>

Joe Gwinn
 
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