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On 2/14/2023 3:15 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-02-14 22:55, Don Y wrote:
A colleague sent along a copy of an article espousing a 2KW/hr/person
energy consumption rate as if it was a practical goal.
Total energy, or just electricity?
Because my house is capped to 2300 watts of electricity. My hot water
and frugal heating is on butane.
I think the point was total energy consumption. Otherwise, it
is super easy to meet -- just shift all of your energy consumption
to non-electric means.
Most homes, here, have 100A (or 200A) service -- so, figure
a rate of ~20,000W or 40,000W. (I\'ve lived in homes with
~60A services -- ~12KW -- and found it really cramped)
Our ACbrrr draws a *peak* load approaching 14KW. Electric range
has cooktop elements of 3600, 3000, 1200 & 1200W (I haven\'t checked
the wattages of the oven elements).
Of course, you could still meet the 2KW/person *avg* goal as those
peak loads need not be in use continuously.
But, looking around the house (again, not counting nonelectric loads),
there are a shitload of \"vampire\" power leaks (all those wall warts
that are idling, waiting for their loads to draw \"operating\" power,
TVs, toaster, oven, refrigerator, thermostat, hifis, computers,
clocks, \"night lights\", phone chargers, STBs -- even the *gas* furnace
(and thermostat) uses electricity when NOT providing heat (or cooling)!
How much of my power budget does the vacuum cleaner consume? Or,
the rug cleaner? Freezer chest? If I ran a humidifier/dehumidifier?
Air cleaner?
And what about those folks who use heat lamps in their bathrooms?
[I have friends with heated (and air conditioned!) garages -- does your
car get cold/hot sitting out there by itself?]
I have at least two PCs running, at all times (plus the internet modem).
And, at least another one or two \"sleeping\" (hibernating, waiting for a
keystroke to return to active use). Plus 3 or 4 monitors (not counting
the others that are easier to just \"let sleep\" than to actually power
off -- esp as they don\'t have HARD power switches)
OTOH, we spend scant little on transportation -- haven\'t flown in
many years, drive less than 100 miles per week (combined), etc.
On 2/20/2023 11:45 PM, Tabby wrote:
On Monday, 20 February 2023 at 10:17:35 UTC, Don Y wrote:
Why should your problems be mine? Are you going to do anything to
refill Lakes Meade & Powell? Or, address gun violence, here?
Shouldn\'t you feel
morally obligated to do so? (as you seem to think USAins have to
behave as
brits in our values and approaches to problems)
Drive smaller cars.
we do. They\'re over twice as safe as American cars, under half the
cost and
about twice as fuel efficient.
If fuel was twice what it costs here, what have you saved?
How do you cart lumber home for a project? Or, purchase
oversized items? Rent a vehicle for the task?
Own smaller refrigerators.
we do
And must, therefore, be visiting the store more often.
You could be spending your time working for pols who would get you
out of
your problems.
you really don\'t get it. Those who could solve it are not going to get
elected.
Because the electorate won\'t elect them? Or, is it that secret
behind-the-scenes organization at work?
It must suck to live somewhere where you KNOW you don\'t have a
choice in your government! My god, what a sad existence you must
lead!
On 21/02/2023 08:29, Don Y wrote:
On 2/20/2023 11:45 PM, Tabby wrote:
On Monday, 20 February 2023 at 10:17:35 UTC, Don Y wrote:
Why should your problems be mine? Are you going to do anything to
refill Lakes Meade & Powell? Or, address gun violence, here?
Shouldn\'t you feel
morally obligated to do so? (as you seem to think USAins have to
behave as
brits in our values and approaches to problems)
Drive smaller cars.
we do. They\'re over twice as safe as American cars, under half the
cost and
about twice as fuel efficient.
If fuel was twice what it costs here, what have you saved?
The planet. US gas guzzlers are amusing and unreliable.
I always tried to get a Japanese hire car over there since I knew it
would be reliable and have some acceleration. I got lumbered with a
Pontiac GrandMa once - so named because of the way it wheezes when
climbing hills. After that I always asked for a Japanese model.
How do you cart lumber home for a project? Or, purchase
oversized items? Rent a vehicle for the task?
My car has a split back seat which allows me to move anything up to 2.4m
long, 1.3m wide and 0.25m high. I can\'t fit 3.6m fence rails in so I
have to order them for delivery - it really isn\'t that difficult.
Own smaller refrigerators.
we do
And must, therefore, be visiting the store more often.
The stores are quite close. I live what is in the UK a long way from any
shops (nearest are about 10 miles away). Our fridge is plenty big enough
to hold all the food for a week. I was surprised how little the fridge
and freezer actually use when are running - just under 100W although the
start from cold current is enormous and almost stalls a 2kW generator.
During lockdown we switched to a fortnightly shop and the fridge could
still cope with that although finding things in it got a lot harder.
You could be spending your time working for pols who would get you
out of
your problems.
you really don\'t get it. Those who could solve it are not going to get
elected.
Because the electorate won\'t elect them? Or, is it that secret
behind-the-scenes organization at work?
The problem of elections was perfectly demonstrated when the swivel eyed
loon Liz Truss was elected PM simply for telling voters what they wanted
to hear. She lasted less time in office than a lettuce (literally). Her
mini not-a-budget tanked the pound to near dollar parity and destroyed
the mortgage market and almost wrecked the pensions system too.
The guy who told the truth about our dire situation, Rishi Sunak lost
out simply for telling it how it really is. He is now the PM at least
until the next election. I don\'t think they expect to be in power again
for at least a decade or more after recent fiascos.
The latest government wheeze has stolen £1.6bn from the UK science budget
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-64726522
Whilst at the same time telling the public that becoming a science
superpower is one of it\'s key objectives. Many European and other
foreign researchers I know have left the UK since the Brexit vote for
other countries that are less xenophobic and better funded.
It must suck to live somewhere where you KNOW you don\'t have a
choice in your government! My god, what a sad existence you must
lead!
Many countries are in that position. Japan inevitably elects the same
old LDP party to be in government again and again (since 1955!).
https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2021/10/28/how-the-ldp-dominates-japans-politics
UK tends to have the same problems of areas that would vote for a monkey
wearing the right coloured rosette irrespective of how good they are.
However, in practice the parties tend to put their best candidates into
such very safe seats (my MP is Rishi Sunak who is now PM).
UK does swap between Conservative and Labour from time to time and has a
a few other minor parties like the Scottish Nationalists, LibDems and
Democratic Unionists who sometimes hold the balance of power (LibDems
have even been in an ill-fated coalition with the Tories).
Right now though the Tory\'s have such a big majority that they could
quite easily get a motion redefining pi = 4 voted through.
The backlash against the Tories gross incompetence is so great right now
that there could well be a Labour landslide at the next election with
nominally safe Tory seats at risk from Labour.
The latest edict from one Tory minister was \"let them eat turnips\". UK
supermarkets have run out of salad veg (because there is an EU shortage
and they won\'t pay enough for them to get any supply).
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11787127/Let-eat-turnips-Therese-Coffey-tells-families-buy-British-veg-battle-food-shortages.html
There is actually a serious point underlying this - that people should
buy more seasonal produce rather than the same all year round. The food
air miles on asparagus flown in fresh from Peru is completely insane!
On 2/19/2023 12:05 PM, Tabby wrote:
On Sunday, 19 February 2023 at 12:30:07 UTC, Don Y wrote:
A comment I hear from my right-wing friends is that the EU \"deserves\" the
(energy) problems they\'re facing because they cozied up to Russia,
(presumably for short-term savings at the expense of energy
independence).
If it were the main cause it would be us suffering because of our stupid
politicians.
Who *gave* the politicians their jobs?
On 2/19/2023 4:49 AM, James wrote:
On 19/02/2023 11:05, Don Y wrote:
On 2/19/2023 3:27 AM, James wrote:
On 15/02/2023 17:57, Don Y wrote:
The *cost* of energy is more than \"a fraction of a dollar, per day\".
My comment (above) was with regard to the *increase* in cost (from
\"rate hikes\") as being relatively modest. Unlike the price of
petrol which can rise 25-30% in short order (and fall again, somewhat).
If the price of a commodity that you regularly consume rises 5-10%,
you gripe and basically get used to the new price, rather than
significantly
changing your consumption. It\'s the *big*, sudden increases that folks
respond to.
We had a *3* *fold* *step* increase in the price of electricity and
gas. Yes, *300%*, and the domestic rates are capped by the
government; businesses pay more.
This is why we in UK and probably the rest of Europe are concerned and
suddenly looking for new ways of behaving.
And YOUR experience should dictate how *I* live my life?
No but your answers here should understand the problems others are facing.
Quote: \'My comment (above) was with regard to the *increase* in cost (from
\"rate hikes\") as being relatively modest.\' They are not.
How much should I alter my behavior to reflect the conditions in
Ukraine, today? Should I be more *appreciative* of the fact
that I have lights and sanitation?
There are places where safe drinking water is scarce. Should I
revere my water supply because it is (allegedly) safe? Should I
advocate shipping it off to those places that don\'t have such access?
On 2/19/2023 12:05 PM, Tabby wrote:
On Sunday, 19 February 2023 at 12:30:07 UTC, Don Y wrote:
A comment I hear from my right-wing friends is that the EU \"deserves\" the
(energy) problems they\'re facing because they cozied up to Russia,
(presumably for short-term savings at the expense of energy
independence).
If it were the main cause it would be us suffering because of our stupid
politicians.
Who *gave* the politicians their jobs?
\"Why should *we* be shipping fuels to them and driving up domestic prices?
Shouldn\'t we try to capitalize on their dilemma? Isn\'t that
\'supply-and-demand\'? Maybe their markets will \'teach them\' that
lesson...\"
We know, we don\'t need teaching. Politicians simply don\'t care. There is no
credible party we can vote in at this point. The uk is in major political
trouble. A lot more major than basic energy supply screwups.
When you get The Masses making stupid decisions based on inflammatory
rhetoric, then you get pols who are loyal to such rhetoric, not
the realities around them (or their constituents).
Farmers, here, have consistently voted republican. Climate change denialism.
Wonder what they\'ll do when their farms blow away?
On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 13:49:14 -0700, Don Y
blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/19/2023 12:05 PM, Tabby wrote:
On Sunday, 19 February 2023 at 12:30:07 UTC, Don Y wrote:
A comment I hear from my right-wing friends is that the EU \"deserves\" the
(energy) problems they\'re facing because they cozied up to Russia,
(presumably for short-term savings at the expense of energy
independence).
If it were the main cause it would be us suffering because of our stupid
politicians.
Who *gave* the politicians their jobs?
\"Why should *we* be shipping fuels to them and driving up domestic prices?
Shouldn\'t we try to capitalize on their dilemma? Isn\'t that
\'supply-and-demand\'? Maybe their markets will \'teach them\' that
lesson...\"
We know, we don\'t need teaching. Politicians simply don\'t care. There is no
credible party we can vote in at this point. The uk is in major political
trouble. A lot more major than basic energy supply screwups.
When you get The Masses making stupid decisions based on inflammatory
rhetoric, then you get pols who are loyal to such rhetoric, not
the realities around them (or their constituents).
Farmers, here, have consistently voted republican. Climate change denialism.
Skill and hard work to grow stuff. \"There are no dumb farmers.\"
Wonder what they\'ll do when their farms blow away?
What will you do when they decide to not feed you?