D
David L. Jones
Guest
Wow, if it actually happens:
http://www.australianit.news.com.au/story/0,24897,24541574-15306,00.html
Dave.
http://www.australianit.news.com.au/story/0,24897,24541574-15306,00.html
Dave.
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D
Don McKenzie
Guest
David L. Jones wrote:
I think the main stumbling block is still battery technology, and not
refueling stations. If the battery was good enough, and the car cheap
enough, there wouldn't be a problem.
People would rent car space and power outlets in their front yards, if
refueling stations was the bottle neck.
City based companies could provide for their workers, or spin a profit
from company owned car parks.
Don...
--
Don McKenzie
Site Map: http://www.dontronics.com/sitemap
E-Mail Contact Page: http://www.dontronics.com/email
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/super4-usb-relay-module.html
http://www.wizard-from-oz.com 1000's of electronic items
couldn't agree more Dave,Wow, if it actually happens:
http://www.australianit.news.com.au/story/0,24897,24541574-15306,00.html
Dave.
I think the main stumbling block is still battery technology, and not
refueling stations. If the battery was good enough, and the car cheap
enough, there wouldn't be a problem.
People would rent car space and power outlets in their front yards, if
refueling stations was the bottle neck.
City based companies could provide for their workers, or spin a profit
from company owned car parks.
Don...
--
Don McKenzie
Site Map: http://www.dontronics.com/sitemap
E-Mail Contact Page: http://www.dontronics.com/email
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/super4-usb-relay-module.html
http://www.wizard-from-oz.com 1000's of electronic items
D
David L. Jones
Guest
On Oct 24, 5:44 am, Don McKenzie <5...@2.5A> wrote:
Although having a big infrastructure in place will help things
immensely, both politically and practically for the first generation
of cars that don't get hundreds of km per charge.
years, and a place I used to work at had one too (at the request of
an employee who built her own fully electric car)
Dave.
I agree.David L. Jones wrote:
Wow, if it actually happens:
http://www.australianit.news.com.au/story/0,24897,24541574-15306,00.html
Dave.
couldn't agree more Dave,
I think the main stumbling block is still battery technology, and not
refueling stations. If the battery was good enough, and the car cheap
enough, there wouldn't be a problem.
Although having a big infrastructure in place will help things
immensely, both politically and practically for the first generation
of cars that don't get hundreds of km per charge.
Our local shopping centre has had an electric car only space for manyPeople would rent car space and power outlets in their front yards, if
refueling stations was the bottle neck.
City based companies could provide for their workers, or spin a profit
from company owned car parks.
years, and a place I used to work at had one too (at the request of
an employee who built her own fully electric car)
Dave.
D
Don McKenzie
Guest
an interesting read at:Our local shopping centre has had an electric car only space for many
years, and a place I used to work at had one too (at the request of
an employee who built her own fully electric car)
Dave.
<http://www.sciam.com/blog/60-second-science/post.cfm?id=electrifying-cars-down-under-2008-10-23>
quote "there is a compelling case for automobile manufacturers to jump
in and build clean, safe, affordable electric cars for Australasia and
Southeast Asia. Who knows? Maybe some Australian city will become the
Detroit of the 21st century?
Perhaps we do need to build the infrastructure first.
Lay your eggs, and the chickens will arrive in great numbers, grasshopper!
Don...
--
Don McKenzie
Site Map: http://www.dontronics.com/sitemap
E-Mail Contact Page: http://www.dontronics.com/email
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/super4-usb-relay-module.html
http://www.wizard-from-oz.com 1000's of electronic items
D
Den
Guest
"Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote in message
news:4901388b$0$4449$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
news:4901388b$0$4449$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
Dooonnn't worry - there's this clean coal thats being mined....."Don McKenzie" <5V@2.5A> wrote in message
news:6mcnrpFg676hU1@mid.individual.net...
quote "there is a compelling case for automobile manufacturers to jump
in and build clean, safe, affordable electric cars for Australasia
But where is the "clean, safe, affordable" electricity going to come from?
Not to mention "clean, safe, affordable" batteries!
MrT.
M
Mr.T
Guest
"Don McKenzie" <5V@2.5A> wrote in message
news:6mcnrpFg676hU1@mid.individual.net...
Not to mention "clean, safe, affordable" batteries!
MrT.
news:6mcnrpFg676hU1@mid.individual.net...
But where is the "clean, safe, affordable" electricity going to come from?quote "there is a compelling case for automobile manufacturers to jump
in and build clean, safe, affordable electric cars for Australasia
Not to mention "clean, safe, affordable" batteries!
MrT.
T
TT
Guest
"David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1bdb9d51-339d-470d-b2a4-e374ccafbcd6@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
a salt water battery system. The idea was it would either
recharge as a conventional battery does or you could go to a
normal service station where the electrolyte could be
drained and then refilled as with a conventional petrol
pump. The idea was to have a solenoid operated drain cock
on the battery and the servo would have grids and a drain
system that then returned the electrolyte to a main tank for
a slow recharge via solar panels or conventional mains. It
solved several problems.
I believe the idea was from Israel (lots of sun and salt
there to) but I never heard any more about it. Conspiracy
theory says a major oil company bought the patent and
shelved it ;-)
This type of idea that can use renewable energy, utilise
existing infrastructure and have a safe, environmentally
friendly battery system would be a real hit. BTW if any one
knows the guy I wouldn't mind a follow up. It was Frank
Parry, the brother of Parry's, the department store in WA.
Cheers TT
news:1bdb9d51-339d-470d-b2a4-e374ccafbcd6@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
Nearly 30 years ago I worked near a guy that was developingOn Oct 24, 1:55 pm, "Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote:
"Don McKenzie" <5...@2.5A> wrote in message
Not to mention "clean, safe, affordable" batteries!
Different ball game there.
Dave.
a salt water battery system. The idea was it would either
recharge as a conventional battery does or you could go to a
normal service station where the electrolyte could be
drained and then refilled as with a conventional petrol
pump. The idea was to have a solenoid operated drain cock
on the battery and the servo would have grids and a drain
system that then returned the electrolyte to a main tank for
a slow recharge via solar panels or conventional mains. It
solved several problems.
I believe the idea was from Israel (lots of sun and salt
there to) but I never heard any more about it. Conspiracy
theory says a major oil company bought the patent and
shelved it ;-)
This type of idea that can use renewable energy, utilise
existing infrastructure and have a safe, environmentally
friendly battery system would be a real hit. BTW if any one
knows the guy I wouldn't mind a follow up. It was Frank
Parry, the brother of Parry's, the department store in WA.
Cheers TT
D
Den
Guest
"TT" <TTencerNoSpaM@westnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:dtudnd4TIetm1pzUnZ2dnUVZ8qbinZ2d@westnet.com.au...
Intuitively you'd think one of the plates would be eroded & consumed if the
electrolyte was renewed rather than the battery recharged. Then again
perhaps plate changes were part of the design / maintenance.
Maybe Robert Parry & it became ---> www.zbbenergy.com ?
Where I found:
"Unlike the lead acid and most other batteries, the ZESS uses electrodes
that cannot and do not take part in the reactions but merely serve as
substrates for the reactions. There is therefore no loss of performance,
unlike most rechargeable batteries, from repeated cycling causing electrode
material deterioration. During the charge cycle metallic zinc is plated from
the electrolyte solution onto the negative electrode surfaces in the cell
stacks. Bromide is then converted to Bromine at the positive electrode
surface of the cell stack and is immediately stored as a safe chemically
complexed organic phase in the electrolyte tank. When the ZESS discharges,
the metallic zinc plated on the negative electrode dissolves in the
electrolyte and is available to be plated again at the next charge cycle.
In the fully discharged state the ZESS can be left indefinitely."
What happened to the wave power test system that was to be planted on the
ocean floor off Fremantle a few years back?
For a supposed "green" community Fremantle is a very odd place, I believe
one of the main reasons wind turbines on the North Mole (harbour sea wall)
were knocked back was that they would be "unsightly".
news:dtudnd4TIetm1pzUnZ2dnUVZ8qbinZ2d@westnet.com.au...
"David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1bdb9d51-339d-470d-b2a4-e374ccafbcd6@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 24, 1:55 pm, "Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote:
"Don McKenzie" <5...@2.5A> wrote in message
Not to mention "clean, safe, affordable" batteries!
Different ball game there.
Dave.
Nearly 30 years ago I worked near a guy that was developing a salt water
battery system. The idea was it would either recharge as a conventional
battery does or you could go to a normal service station where the
electrolyte could be drained and then refilled as with a conventional
petrol pump. The idea was to have a solenoid operated drain cock on the
battery and the servo would have grids and a drain system that then
returned the electrolyte to a main tank for a slow recharge via solar
panels or conventional mains. It solved several problems.
I believe the idea was from Israel (lots of sun and salt there to) but I
never heard any more about it. Conspiracy theory says a major oil company
bought the patent and shelved it ;-)
This type of idea that can use renewable energy, utilise existing
infrastructure and have a safe, environmentally friendly battery system
would be a real hit. BTW if any one knows the guy I wouldn't mind a
follow up. It was Frank Parry, the brother of Parry's, the department
store in WA.
Cheers TT
Intuitively you'd think one of the plates would be eroded & consumed if the
electrolyte was renewed rather than the battery recharged. Then again
perhaps plate changes were part of the design / maintenance.
Maybe Robert Parry & it became ---> www.zbbenergy.com ?
Where I found:
"Unlike the lead acid and most other batteries, the ZESS uses electrodes
that cannot and do not take part in the reactions but merely serve as
substrates for the reactions. There is therefore no loss of performance,
unlike most rechargeable batteries, from repeated cycling causing electrode
material deterioration. During the charge cycle metallic zinc is plated from
the electrolyte solution onto the negative electrode surfaces in the cell
stacks. Bromide is then converted to Bromine at the positive electrode
surface of the cell stack and is immediately stored as a safe chemically
complexed organic phase in the electrolyte tank. When the ZESS discharges,
the metallic zinc plated on the negative electrode dissolves in the
electrolyte and is available to be plated again at the next charge cycle.
In the fully discharged state the ZESS can be left indefinitely."
What happened to the wave power test system that was to be planted on the
ocean floor off Fremantle a few years back?
For a supposed "green" community Fremantle is a very odd place, I believe
one of the main reasons wind turbines on the North Mole (harbour sea wall)
were knocked back was that they would be "unsightly".
D
Den
Guest
"Den" <hjplease@hogwart.org> wrote in message
news:490150f9$0$10608$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
news:490150f9$0$10608$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
ah - you are correct - there is a Frank Parry too."TT" <TTencerNoSpaM@westnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:dtudnd4TIetm1pzUnZ2dnUVZ8qbinZ2d@westnet.com.au...
"David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1bdb9d51-339d-470d-b2a4-e374ccafbcd6@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 24, 1:55 pm, "Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote:
"Don McKenzie" <5...@2.5A> wrote in message
Not to mention "clean, safe, affordable" batteries!
Different ball game there.
Dave.
Nearly 30 years ago I worked near a guy that was developing a salt water
battery system. The idea was it would either recharge as a conventional
battery does or you could go to a normal service station where the
electrolyte could be drained and then refilled as with a conventional
petrol pump. The idea was to have a solenoid operated drain cock on the
battery and the servo would have grids and a drain system that then
returned the electrolyte to a main tank for a slow recharge via solar
panels or conventional mains. It solved several problems.
I believe the idea was from Israel (lots of sun and salt there to) but I
never heard any more about it. Conspiracy theory says a major oil
company bought the patent and shelved it ;-)
This type of idea that can use renewable energy, utilise existing
infrastructure and have a safe, environmentally friendly battery system
would be a real hit. BTW if any one knows the guy I wouldn't mind a
follow up. It was Frank Parry, the brother of Parry's, the department
store in WA.
Cheers TT
Intuitively you'd think one of the plates would be eroded & consumed if
the electrolyte was renewed rather than the battery recharged. Then again
perhaps plate changes were part of the design / maintenance.
Maybe Robert Parry & it became ---> www.zbbenergy.com ?
Where I found:
"Unlike the lead acid and most other batteries, the ZESS uses electrodes
that cannot and do not take part in the reactions but merely serve as
substrates for the reactions. There is therefore no loss of performance,
unlike most rechargeable batteries, from repeated cycling causing
electrode material deterioration. During the charge cycle metallic zinc is
plated from the electrolyte solution onto the negative electrode surfaces
in the cell stacks. Bromide is then converted to Bromine at the positive
electrode surface of the cell stack and is immediately stored as a safe
chemically complexed organic phase in the electrolyte tank. When the ZESS
discharges, the metallic zinc plated on the negative electrode dissolves
in the electrolyte and is available to be plated again at the next charge
cycle. In the fully discharged state the ZESS can be left indefinitely."
What happened to the wave power test system that was to be planted on the
ocean floor off Fremantle a few years back?
For a supposed "green" community Fremantle is a very odd place, I believe
one of the main reasons wind turbines on the North Mole (harbour sea wall)
were knocked back was that they would be "unsightly".
D
David L. Jones
Guest
On Oct 24, 11:48 am, Don McKenzie <5...@2.5A> wrote:
implemented, both in these charging stations and the cars themselves.
They will want to protect their market space somehow if it takes off.
As you said, people will rent space and a power point at their own
place, along with existing service stations, parking stations, shops,
work places etc. None of this needs this new "infrastructure", which
is really just a special plug connection and a payment system to the
existing grid.
People will no doubt try and "steal" electricity from anywhere they
can.
Previous EV's have had a special plug (that looks remarkably like a
petrol pump) and a control/charging box you install in your home. But
ultimately I think that people will want to plug their EV into a
standard mains connection as well. A potential big market for
"conversions" or some form of kit that allows standard power point
connection?
My friend who built her own electric car installed a standard mains
plug inside the existing fuel cap and had an extension cord in the
boot. Neat.
BTW, for those that haven't seen it, the movie "Who killed the
electric car" is well worth a watch.
Dave.
I'm curious to know the details of this and how it's going to beOur local shopping centre has had an electric car only space for many
years, and a place I used to work at had one too (at the request of
an employee who built her own fully electric car)
Dave.
an interesting read at:
http://www.sciam.com/blog/60-second-science/post.cfm?id=electrifying-....
quote "there is a compelling case for automobile manufacturers to jump
in and build clean, safe, affordable electric cars for Australasia and
Southeast Asia. Who knows? Maybe some Australian city will become the
Detroit of the 21st century?
Perhaps we do need to build the infrastructure first.
Lay your eggs, and the chickens will arrive in great numbers, grasshopper!
implemented, both in these charging stations and the cars themselves.
They will want to protect their market space somehow if it takes off.
As you said, people will rent space and a power point at their own
place, along with existing service stations, parking stations, shops,
work places etc. None of this needs this new "infrastructure", which
is really just a special plug connection and a payment system to the
existing grid.
People will no doubt try and "steal" electricity from anywhere they
can.
Previous EV's have had a special plug (that looks remarkably like a
petrol pump) and a control/charging box you install in your home. But
ultimately I think that people will want to plug their EV into a
standard mains connection as well. A potential big market for
"conversions" or some form of kit that allows standard power point
connection?
My friend who built her own electric car installed a standard mains
plug inside the existing fuel cap and had an extension cord in the
boot. Neat.
BTW, for those that haven't seen it, the movie "Who killed the
electric car" is well worth a watch.
Dave.
D
David L. Jones
Guest
On Oct 24, 1:55 pm, "Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote:
enough for a mass change overnight change of course.
But as the demand for renewable energy increases, more plants will be
built, and options increase as technology improves.
For instance, they had to build new wind farms to power the new Sydney
desalination plant, as there wasn't enough existing renewable capacity
available.
I'm buying 100% renewable energy to spur on the progress, aren't you?
The goal for NZ is to be using 90% renewable energy by 2025. Australia
will be only 20% by 2020, but at least it's a start.
Dave.
There is already some existing renewable capacity on the grid, but not"Don McKenzie" <5...@2.5A> wrote in message
news:6mcnrpFg676hU1@mid.individual.net...
quote "there is a compelling case for automobile manufacturers to jump
in and build clean, safe, affordable electric cars for Australasia
But where is the "clean, safe, affordable" electricity going to come from?
enough for a mass change overnight change of course.
But as the demand for renewable energy increases, more plants will be
built, and options increase as technology improves.
For instance, they had to build new wind farms to power the new Sydney
desalination plant, as there wasn't enough existing renewable capacity
available.
I'm buying 100% renewable energy to spur on the progress, aren't you?
The goal for NZ is to be using 90% renewable energy by 2025. Australia
will be only 20% by 2020, but at least it's a start.
Different ball game there.Not to mention "clean, safe, affordable" batteries!
Dave.
T
terryc
Guest
On Fri, 24 Oct 2008 12:15:51 +0800, TT wrote:
during WWII, but that consumed magnesium plates. The electrolyte was just
"sea water". He may have had an idea that it could be reversed.
" The idea was to have a solenoid operated drain cock on the
like this now? People keep claiming it can be done with lead-acid
technology, but I suspect they are mistaken.
Mmm, sounds like the Salt water 'battery" that was apparently around"David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1bdb9d51-339d-470d-b2a4-e374ccafbcd6@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 24, 1:55 pm, "Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote:
"Don McKenzie" <5...@2.5A> wrote in message
Not to mention "clean, safe, affordable" batteries!
Different ball game there.
Dave.
Nearly 30 years ago I worked near a guy that was developing a salt water
battery system. The idea was it would either recharge as a conventional
battery does or you could go to a normal service station where the
electrolyte could be drained and then refilled as with a conventional
petrol pump.
during WWII, but that consumed magnesium plates. The electrolyte was just
"sea water". He may have had an idea that it could be reversed.
" The idea was to have a solenoid operated drain cock on the
Is there any currently opperating system that actually worksbattery and the servo would have grids and a drain system that then
returned the electrolyte to a main tank for a slow recharge via solar
panels or conventional mains.
like this now? People keep claiming it can be done with lead-acid
technology, but I suspect they are mistaken.
D
David Segall
Guest
"David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote:
car? A distribution system for the gas and a change to multi-fuel cars
seems preferable to me.
almost certainly be used to generate the electricity, directly in theWow, if it actually happens:
http://www.australianit.news.com.au/story/0,24897,24541574-15306,00.html
Wouldn't it be better to use the natural and coal seam gas that will
car? A distribution system for the gas and a change to multi-fuel cars
seems preferable to me.
M
Mr.T
Guest
"David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1bdb9d51-339d-470d-b2a4-e374ccafbcd6@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
before we can increase demand that much. Otherwise we are simply burning
coal instead of petrol. Then adding battery problems to boot!
MrT.
news:1bdb9d51-339d-470d-b2a4-e374ccafbcd6@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
Exactly. We need to meet current demand with 100% clean, renewable energyBut where is the "clean, safe, affordable" electricity going to come
from?
There is already some existing renewable capacity on the grid, but not
enough for a mass change overnight change of course.
The goal for NZ is to be using 90% renewable energy by 2025. Australia
will be only 20% by 2020, but at least it's a start.
before we can increase demand that much. Otherwise we are simply burning
coal instead of petrol. Then adding battery problems to boot!
MrT.
T
Trevor Wilson
Guest
"David Segall" <david@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:rnn2g4dadouci14qgincd3ee2f2ii4clje@4ax.com...
thermal generation plants is MUCH higher than internal combustion engines
(around double). Electric motors in vehicles routinely top 80+% efficiency.
Even better, is that electric motors generate torque at zero RPM and thus
are perfectly suited to stop-start motoring. Even betterer still is that
regenerative braking can be used to extend the efficiency of the entire
vehicle still further.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
news:rnn2g4dadouci14qgincd3ee2f2ii4clje@4ax.com...
**Preferable, but far less efficient. Conversion efficiencies for large,"David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote:
Wow, if it actually happens:
http://www.australianit.news.com.au/story/0,24897,24541574-15306,00.html
Wouldn't it be better to use the natural and coal seam gas that will
almost certainly be used to generate the electricity, directly in the
car? A distribution system for the gas and a change to multi-fuel cars
seems preferable to me.
thermal generation plants is MUCH higher than internal combustion engines
(around double). Electric motors in vehicles routinely top 80+% efficiency.
Even better, is that electric motors generate torque at zero RPM and thus
are perfectly suited to stop-start motoring. Even betterer still is that
regenerative braking can be used to extend the efficiency of the entire
vehicle still further.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
T
Trevor Wilson
Guest
"Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote in message
news:4901596a$0$18425$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
whilst thermal power stations are respectably efficient. Worse, IC engines
are arguably the worst type of motor for stop-start city use. Electric
motors are vastly more suited to such a task. A significantly smaller motor
can be used. The Prius electric motor, for instance, though only developing
50kW, delivers around 400Nm of torque. That is the kind of planet-turning
toque only achieved by V8 engines and highly tuned turbo 4 cylinder engines.
It provides the Prius with quite respectable off-the-line performance, with
minimal fuel use.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
news:4901596a$0$18425$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
**Not quite. Internal combustion engines are spectacularly inefficient,"David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1bdb9d51-339d-470d-b2a4-e374ccafbcd6@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
But where is the "clean, safe, affordable" electricity going to come
from?
There is already some existing renewable capacity on the grid, but not
enough for a mass change overnight change of course.
The goal for NZ is to be using 90% renewable energy by 2025. Australia
will be only 20% by 2020, but at least it's a start.
Exactly. We need to meet current demand with 100% clean, renewable energy
before we can increase demand that much. Otherwise we are simply burning
coal instead of petrol. Then adding battery problems to boot!
whilst thermal power stations are respectably efficient. Worse, IC engines
are arguably the worst type of motor for stop-start city use. Electric
motors are vastly more suited to such a task. A significantly smaller motor
can be used. The Prius electric motor, for instance, though only developing
50kW, delivers around 400Nm of torque. That is the kind of planet-turning
toque only achieved by V8 engines and highly tuned turbo 4 cylinder engines.
It provides the Prius with quite respectable off-the-line performance, with
minimal fuel use.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
D
David L. Jones
Guest
On Oct 24, 2:37 pm, "Den" <hjple...@hogwart.org> wrote:
http://www.ceto.com.au/home.php
and
http://www.theage.com.au/national/new-wave-of-power-in-renewable-energy-market-20081004-4tyd.html
farm that supplies half of the towns power.
They look majestic sitting up there on the hill, and the towns folk
love them, they want more installed.
Flying into Germany a few years back now, it was wind farms out the
window as far as the eye could see.
Very eerie standing under them when they are rotating though!
Dave.
Still going:"TT" <TTencerNoS...@westnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:dtudnd4TIetm1pzUnZ2dnUVZ8qbinZ2d@westnet.com.au...
"David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1bdb9d51-339d-470d-b2a4-e374ccafbcd6@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 24, 1:55 pm, "Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote:
"Don McKenzie" <5...@2.5A> wrote in message
Not to mention "clean, safe, affordable" batteries!
Different ball game there.
Dave.
Nearly 30 years ago I worked near a guy that was developing a salt water
battery system. The idea was it would either recharge as a conventional
battery does or you could go to a normal service station where the
electrolyte could be drained and then refilled as with a conventional
petrol pump. The idea was to have a solenoid operated drain cock on the
battery and the servo would have grids and a drain system that then
returned the electrolyte to a main tank for a slow recharge via solar
panels or conventional mains. It solved several problems.
I believe the idea was from Israel (lots of sun and salt there to) but I
never heard any more about it. Conspiracy theory says a major oil company
bought the patent and shelved it ;-)
This type of idea that can use renewable energy, utilise existing
infrastructure and have a safe, environmentally friendly battery system
would be a real hit. BTW if any one knows the guy I wouldn't mind a
follow up. It was Frank Parry, the brother of Parry's, the department
store in WA.
Cheers TT
Intuitively you'd think one of the plates would be eroded & consumed if the
electrolyte was renewed rather than the battery recharged. Then again
perhaps plate changes were part of the design / maintenance.
Maybe Robert Parry & it became --->www.zbbenergy.com ?
Where I found:
"Unlike the lead acid and most other batteries, the ZESS uses electrodes
that cannot and do not take part in the reactions but merely serve as
substrates for the reactions. There is therefore no loss of performance,
unlike most rechargeable batteries, from repeated cycling causing electrode
material deterioration. During the charge cycle metallic zinc is plated from
the electrolyte solution onto the negative electrode surfaces in the cell
stacks. Bromide is then converted to Bromine at the positive electrode
surface of the cell stack and is immediately stored as a safe chemically
complexed organic phase in the electrolyte tank. When the ZESS discharges,
the metallic zinc plated on the negative electrode dissolves in the
electrolyte and is available to be plated again at the next charge cycle.
In the fully discharged state the ZESS can be left indefinitely."
What happened to the wave power test system that was to be planted on the
ocean floor off Fremantle a few years back?
http://www.ceto.com.au/home.php
and
http://www.theage.com.au/national/new-wave-of-power-in-renewable-energy-market-20081004-4tyd.html
I was in Denham in WA a few months back and had a look at the windFor a supposed "green" community Fremantle is a very odd place, I believe
one of the main reasons wind turbines on the North Mole (harbour sea wall)
were knocked back was that they would be "unsightly".
farm that supplies half of the towns power.
They look majestic sitting up there on the hill, and the towns folk
love them, they want more installed.
Flying into Germany a few years back now, it was wind farms out the
window as far as the eye could see.
Very eerie standing under them when they are rotating though!
Dave.
D
David L. Jones
Guest
On Oct 24, 3:41 pm, David Segall <da...@address.invalid> wrote:
What happens when the gas runs out?
WA already has a gas crisis.
You can buy 100% renewable electrical energy. More of it is simply a
matter of demand.
the grid.
Dave.
Not in the long term."David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
Wow, if it actually happens:
http://www.australianit.news.com.au/story/0,24897,24541574-15306,00.html
Wouldn't it be better to use the natural and coal seam gas that will
almost certainly be used to generate the electricity, directly in the
car?
What happens when the gas runs out?
WA already has a gas crisis.
You can buy 100% renewable electrical energy. More of it is simply a
matter of demand.
Electricity already has a distribution system in place, it's calledA distribution system for the gas and a change to multi-fuel cars
seems preferable to me.
the grid.
Dave.
E
Eeyore
Guest
"David L. Jones" wrote:
Graham
Where are the electric cars ?Wow, if it actually happens:
http://www.australianit.news.com.au/story/0,24897,24541574-15306,00.html
Graham
E
Eeyore
Guest
"David L. Jones" wrote:
conventionally generated electricity.
If you want it to stay subsidised at those levels your taxes are going to go up
a LOT.
Graham
At a true (unsubsidised) cost of between twice to nearly ten times that ofYou can buy 100% renewable electrical energy. More of it is simply a
matter of demand.
conventionally generated electricity.
If you want it to stay subsidised at those levels your taxes are going to go up
a LOT.
Graham