180 degrees out of phase

[Uncle Peter]

If you built a circuit with a big inductor and a big capacitor in series, such that the resonant frequency was 50Hz, then connected it to the mains, would you get current flowing 180 degrees out of phase with the voltage, and run the meter backwards?

--
Her voice had that tense grating quality, like a first-generation thermal paper fax machine that needed a band tightened.

 

[Brian Gregory]

On 09/05/2014 23:56, Uncle Peter wrote:

If you built a circuit with a big inductor and a big capacitor in
series, such that the resonant frequency was 50Hz, then connected it to
the mains, would you get current flowing 180 degrees out of phase with
the voltage, and run the meter backwards?

No.

You'd just blow a fuse somewhere (or the inductor or capacitor would
blow) since you've just connected something that's a dead short at 50Hz
across 50Hz mains.

--

Brian Gregory (in the UK).
To email me please remove all the letter vee from my email address.

 

[Uncle Peter]

On Sat, 10 May 2014 16:52:02 +0100, Brian Gregory <bvdvgvrvevgvovrvy@gmail.com> wrote:

On 09/05/2014 23:56, Uncle Peter wrote:
If you built a circuit with a big inductor and a big capacitor in
series, such that the resonant frequency was 50Hz, then connected it to
the mains, would you get current flowing 180 degrees out of phase with
the voltage, and run the meter backwards?

No.

You'd just blow a fuse somewhere (or the inductor or capacitor would
blow) since you've just connected something that's a dead short at 50Hz
across 50Hz mains.

In that case what about the above in series with a load?

--
Q: Why can't you have a circumcised Morris dancer?
A: Because you have to be a complete prick to be a Morris dancer.

 

[Ian Field]

"Uncle Peter" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.xfnjsqvvswtmtb@red.lan...

On Sat, 10 May 2014 16:52:02 +0100, Brian Gregory
bvdvgvrvevgvovrvy@gmail.com> wrote:

On 09/05/2014 23:56, Uncle Peter wrote:
If you built a circuit with a big inductor and a big capacitor in
series, such that the resonant frequency was 50Hz, then connected it to
the mains, would you get current flowing 180 degrees out of phase with
the voltage, and run the meter backwards?

No.

You'd just blow a fuse somewhere (or the inductor or capacitor would
blow) since you've just connected something that's a dead short at 50Hz
across 50Hz mains.

In that case what about the above in series with a load?

You need a really huge permanent magnet clamped on the electricity meter so
the V & I coils saturate their cores on alternate half-cycles.

 

[Uncle Peter]

On Sat, 10 May 2014 22:09:58 +0100, Ian Field <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:

"Uncle Peter" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.xfnjsqvvswtmtb@red.lan...
On Sat, 10 May 2014 16:52:02 +0100, Brian Gregory
bvdvgvrvevgvovrvy@gmail.com> wrote:

On 09/05/2014 23:56, Uncle Peter wrote:
If you built a circuit with a big inductor and a big capacitor in
series, such that the resonant frequency was 50Hz, then connected it to
the mains, would you get current flowing 180 degrees out of phase with
the voltage, and run the meter backwards?

No.

You'd just blow a fuse somewhere (or the inductor or capacitor would
blow) since you've just connected something that's a dead short at 50Hz
across 50Hz mains.

In that case what about the above in series with a load?

You need a really huge permanent magnet clamped on the electricity meter so
the V & I coils saturate their cores on alternate half-cycles.

It's a digital meter :-/

--
What do you call kinky sex with chocolate?
S&M&M

 

[Brian Gregory]

On 10/05/2014 16:52, Brian Gregory wrote:

On 09/05/2014 23:56, Uncle Peter wrote:
If you built a circuit with a big inductor and a big capacitor in
series, such that the resonant frequency was 50Hz, then connected it to
the mains, would you get current flowing 180 degrees out of phase with
the voltage, and run the meter backwards?

No.

You'd just blow a fuse somewhere (or the inductor or capacitor would
blow) since you've just connected something that's a dead short at 50Hz
across 50Hz mains.

And, come to think of it, you'd also get some ludicrously high voltage
at the junction of the inductor and capacitor, potentially instantly
destroying the capacitor. Exactly how high depends on how perfect the
inductor and capacitor are and how exactly they resonate at the mains
frequency.

--

Brian Gregory (in the UK).
To email me please remove all the letter vee from my email address.

 

[petrus bitbyter]

"Uncle Peter" schreef in bericht newsp.xfl7cuxeswtmtb@red.lan...

If you built a circuit with a big inductor and a big capacitor in series,
such that the resonant frequency was 50Hz, then connected it to the mains,
would you get current flowing 180 degrees out of phase with the voltage, and
run the meter backwards?

--
Her voice had that tense grating quality, like a first-generation thermal
paper fax machine that needed a band tightened.


No, but you may experience some expensive fireworks. Worst (or best?) case
you may earn a Darwin award.

petrus bitbyter

 

[Ian Field]

"petrus bitbyter" <petrus.bitbyter@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:536ff61f$0$2918$e4fe514c@dreader37.news.xs4all.nl...

"Uncle Peter" schreef in bericht newsp.xfl7cuxeswtmtb@red.lan...

If you built a circuit with a big inductor and a big capacitor in series,
such that the resonant frequency was 50Hz, then connected it to the mains,
would you get current flowing 180 degrees out of phase with the voltage,
and run the meter backwards?

Dont! - he's stupid enough to do it.

 

[Uncle Peter]

On Mon, 12 May 2014 18:27:52 +0100, Ian Field <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:

"petrus bitbyter" <petrus.bitbyter@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:536ff61f$0$2918$e4fe514c@dreader37.news.xs4all.nl...


"Uncle Peter" schreef in bericht newsp.xfl7cuxeswtmtb@red.lan...

If you built a circuit with a big inductor and a big capacitor in series,
such that the resonant frequency was 50Hz, then connected it to the mains,
would you get current flowing 180 degrees out of phase with the voltage,
and run the meter backwards?

Dont! - he's stupid enough to do it.

What are you telling him not to do? His text is missing.

--
I would defend the liberty of consenting adult creationists to practice whatever intellectual perversions they like in the privacy of their own homes; but it is also necessary to protect the young and innocent. -- Arthur C. Clarke

 

[Ian Field]

"Uncle Peter" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.xftohyxpswtmtb@red.lan...

On Mon, 12 May 2014 18:27:52 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"petrus bitbyter" <petrus.bitbyter@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:536ff61f$0$2918$e4fe514c@dreader37.news.xs4all.nl...


"Uncle Peter" schreef in bericht newsp.xfl7cuxeswtmtb@red.lan...

If you built a circuit with a big inductor and a big capacitor in
series,
such that the resonant frequency was 50Hz, then connected it to the
mains,
would you get current flowing 180 degrees out of phase with the voltage,
and run the meter backwards?

Dont! - he's stupid enough to do it.

What are you telling him not to do? His text is missing.

He was telling you to put a series resonant LC across the mains.

 

[Uncle Peter]

On Wed, 14 May 2014 18:22:04 +0100, Ian Field <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:

"Uncle Peter" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.xftohyxpswtmtb@red.lan...
On Mon, 12 May 2014 18:27:52 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"petrus bitbyter" <petrus.bitbyter@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:536ff61f$0$2918$e4fe514c@dreader37.news.xs4all.nl...


"Uncle Peter" schreef in bericht newsp.xfl7cuxeswtmtb@red.lan...

If you built a circuit with a big inductor and a big capacitor in
series,
such that the resonant frequency was 50Hz, then connected it to the
mains,
would you get current flowing 180 degrees out of phase with the voltage,
and run the meter backwards?

Dont! - he's stupid enough to do it.

What are you telling him not to do? His text is missing.

He was telling you to put a series resonant LC across the mains.

That was my idea.

--
I'm not so think as you drunk I am...

 

[Ian Field]

"Uncle Peter" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.xfu31uw7swtmtb@red.lan...

On Wed, 14 May 2014 18:22:04 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.xftohyxpswtmtb@red.lan...
On Mon, 12 May 2014 18:27:52 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"petrus bitbyter" <petrus.bitbyter@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:536ff61f$0$2918$e4fe514c@dreader37.news.xs4all.nl...


"Uncle Peter" schreef in bericht newsp.xfl7cuxeswtmtb@red.lan...

If you built a circuit with a big inductor and a big capacitor in
series,
such that the resonant frequency was 50Hz, then connected it to the
mains,
would you get current flowing 180 degrees out of phase with the
voltage,
and run the meter backwards?

Dont! - he's stupid enough to do it.

What are you telling him not to do? His text is missing.

He was telling you to put a series resonant LC across the mains.

That was my idea.

And I told him you were stupid enough to do it.

 

[Uncle Peter]

On Wed, 14 May 2014 22:04:54 +0100, Ian Field <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:

"Uncle Peter" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.xfu31uw7swtmtb@red.lan...
On Wed, 14 May 2014 18:22:04 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.xftohyxpswtmtb@red.lan...
On Mon, 12 May 2014 18:27:52 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"petrus bitbyter" <petrus.bitbyter@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:536ff61f$0$2918$e4fe514c@dreader37.news.xs4all.nl...


Dont! - he's stupid enough to do it.

What are you telling him not to do? His text is missing.

He was telling you to put a series resonant LC across the mains.

That was my idea.

And I told him you were stupid enough to do it.

Then what was the DON'T!?

--
A guy says, "I remember the first time I used alcohol as a substitute for women."
"Yeah what happened?" asked the other.
The first guy replies, "Well, I got my penis stuck in the neck of the bottle."

 

[Ian Field]

"Uncle Peter" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.xfvb411eswtmtb@red.lan...

On Wed, 14 May 2014 22:04:54 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.xfu31uw7swtmtb@red.lan...
On Wed, 14 May 2014 18:22:04 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.xftohyxpswtmtb@red.lan...
On Mon, 12 May 2014 18:27:52 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"petrus bitbyter" <petrus.bitbyter@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:536ff61f$0$2918$e4fe514c@dreader37.news.xs4all.nl...


Dont! - he's stupid enough to do it.

What are you telling him not to do? His text is missing.

He was telling you to put a series resonant LC across the mains.

That was my idea.

And I told him you were stupid enough to do it.

Then what was the DON'T!?

Assuming all theoretical ideal components, your series resonant circuit
would draw infinite current and produce infinite voltage at the junction
between L & C - you'd vaporise the whole galaxy.

 

[Uncle Peter]

On Thu, 15 May 2014 17:17:55 +0100, Ian Field <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:

"Uncle Peter" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.xfvb411eswtmtb@red.lan...
On Wed, 14 May 2014 22:04:54 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.xfu31uw7swtmtb@red.lan...
On Wed, 14 May 2014 18:22:04 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.xftohyxpswtmtb@red.lan...




He was telling you to put a series resonant LC across the mains.

That was my idea.

And I told him you were stupid enough to do it.

Then what was the DON'T!?

Assuming all theoretical ideal components, your series resonant circuit
would draw infinite current and produce infinite voltage at the junction
between L & C - you'd vaporise the whole galaxy.

So what about putting in in series with a 240V load?

--
Exersize: the act of removing excess baggage

 

[Ian Field]

"Uncle Peter" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.xfwundzeswtmtb@red.lan...

On Thu, 15 May 2014 17:17:55 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.xfvb411eswtmtb@red.lan...
On Wed, 14 May 2014 22:04:54 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.xfu31uw7swtmtb@red.lan...
On Wed, 14 May 2014 18:22:04 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.xftohyxpswtmtb@red.lan...




He was telling you to put a series resonant LC across the mains.

That was my idea.

And I told him you were stupid enough to do it.

Then what was the DON'T!?

Assuming all theoretical ideal components, your series resonant circuit
would draw infinite current and produce infinite voltage at the junction
between L & C - you'd vaporise the whole galaxy.

So what about putting in in series with a 240V load?

It would see the load as a loss vector which would change the whole dynamic.

 

[Uncle Peter]

On Thu, 15 May 2014 18:43:09 +0100, Ian Field <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:

"Uncle Peter" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.xfwundzeswtmtb@red.lan...
On Thu, 15 May 2014 17:17:55 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.xfvb411eswtmtb@red.lan...
On Wed, 14 May 2014 22:04:54 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.xfu31uw7swtmtb@red.lan...






And I told him you were stupid enough to do it.

Then what was the DON'T!?

Assuming all theoretical ideal components, your series resonant circuit
would draw infinite current and produce infinite voltage at the junction
between L & C - you'd vaporise the whole galaxy.

So what about putting in in series with a 240V load?

It would see the load as a loss vector which would change the whole dynamic.

Explain further. The added circuit should be a "negative resistance", which when added to a normal resistance would app to.... zero?!

--
Interesting fact number 476:
80% of millionaires drive used cars.

 

[Ian Field]

"Uncle Peter" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.xfw8nxkzswtmtb@red.lan...

On Thu, 15 May 2014 18:43:09 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.xfwundzeswtmtb@red.lan...
On Thu, 15 May 2014 17:17:55 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.xfvb411eswtmtb@red.lan...
On Wed, 14 May 2014 22:04:54 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.xfu31uw7swtmtb@red.lan...






And I told him you were stupid enough to do it.

Then what was the DON'T!?

Assuming all theoretical ideal components, your series resonant circuit
would draw infinite current and produce infinite voltage at the
junction
between L & C - you'd vaporise the whole galaxy.

So what about putting in in series with a 240V load?

It would see the load as a loss vector which would change the whole
dynamic.

Explain further. The added circuit should be a "negative resistance",
which when added to a normal resistance would app to.... zero?!

In theoretically ideal components, C has current leading voltage by 90 deg
and L has current lagging by 90.

In real world components, losses alter the vector angles with the end result
that your series resonant circuit doesn't draw infinite current and produce
infinite voltage.

 

[Uncle Peter]

On Fri, 16 May 2014 15:56:00 +0100, Ian Field <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:

"Uncle Peter" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.xfw8nxkzswtmtb@red.lan...
On Thu, 15 May 2014 18:43:09 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.xfwundzeswtmtb@red.lan...
On Thu, 15 May 2014 17:17:55 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.xfvb411eswtmtb@red.lan...








Assuming all theoretical ideal components, your series resonant circuit
would draw infinite current and produce infinite voltage at the
junction
between L & C - you'd vaporise the whole galaxy.

So what about putting in in series with a 240V load?

It would see the load as a loss vector which would change the whole
dynamic.

Explain further. The added circuit should be a "negative resistance",
which when added to a normal resistance would app to.... zero?!

In theoretically ideal components, C has current leading voltage by 90 deg
and L has current lagging by 90.

In real world components, losses alter the vector angles with the end result
that your series resonant circuit doesn't draw infinite current and produce
infinite voltage.

But I wonder if it would help reduce the meter reading?

--
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people
appear bright until you hear them speak.

 

[Ian Field]

"Uncle Peter" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.xfyrqdb6swtmtb@red.lan...

On Fri, 16 May 2014 15:56:00 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.xfw8nxkzswtmtb@red.lan...
On Thu, 15 May 2014 18:43:09 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.xfwundzeswtmtb@red.lan...
On Thu, 15 May 2014 17:17:55 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.xfvb411eswtmtb@red.lan...








Assuming all theoretical ideal components, your series resonant
circuit
would draw infinite current and produce infinite voltage at the
junction
between L & C - you'd vaporise the whole galaxy.

So what about putting in in series with a 240V load?

It would see the load as a loss vector which would change the whole
dynamic.

Explain further. The added circuit should be a "negative resistance",
which when added to a normal resistance would app to.... zero?!

In theoretically ideal components, C has current leading voltage by 90
deg
and L has current lagging by 90.

In real world components, losses alter the vector angles with the end
result
that your series resonant circuit doesn't draw infinite current and
produce
infinite voltage.

But I wonder if it would help reduce the meter reading?

It incinerates your meter so there isn't much left to read.

You could buy all 110V appliances and use capacitor "wattless droppers".

That would put I out of phase with V and screw up the meter readings.

Each capacitor needs to be dimensioned for its load - Late hybrid TCE CTVs
used a wattless dropper for the 300mA heater chain, the capacitor was
4.3uF - you can scale that for the current draw of your appliances.