B
Bret Cahill
Guest
A 100 microwatt PV panel shouldn't cost too much on a production
basis.
Bret Cahill
basis.
Bret Cahill
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J
John Larkin
Guest
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 16:13:45 -0700 (PDT), Bret Cahill
<BretCahill@peoplepc.com> wrote:
polysilicon PV probably costs pennies in production.
<BretCahill@peoplepc.com> wrote:
Solar calculators are cheap, as are those LED garden lights. A smallA 100 microwatt PV panel shouldn't cost too much on a production
basis.
Bret Cahill
polysilicon PV probably costs pennies in production.
B
Bret Cahill
Guest
What's really surprising -- no one has even commented on this eitherA 100 microwatt PV panel shouldn't cost too much on a production
basis.
Bret Cahill
Solar calculators are cheap, as are those LED garden lights. A small
polysilicon PV probably costs pennies in production.
-- is the size of the smallest micro electronic item is still as large
or larger than DARPA's insect drones.
It's as though everything sold to consumers _must_ have a key pad,
buttons or switches that require cm^2 of surface area.
How this mentality got grandfathered in is a mystery. Garden lights
have no buttons or size requirements so there is no reason not to
miniturize garden lights for Dollar Store "Glowing Sand" or confetti.
In that case the LED, PV and battery would be printed up on paper and
cost almost nothing.
Bret Cahill
B
Bret Cahill
Guest
Different colors could be used to "paint" on the sides of buildings.A 100 microwatt PV panel shouldn't cost too much on a production
basis.
Bret Cahill
Solar calculators are cheap, as are those LED garden lights. A small
polysilicon PV probably costs pennies in production.
What's really surprising -- no one has even commented on this either
-- is the size of the smallest micro electronic item is still as large
or larger than DARPA's insect drones.
It's as though everything sold to consumers _must_ have a key pad,
buttons or switches that require cm^2 of surface area.
How this mentality got grandfathered in is a mystery. Garden lights
have no buttons or size requirements so there is no reason not to
miniturize garden lights for Dollar Store "Glowing Sand" or confetti.
In that case the LED, PV and battery would be printed up on paper and
cost almost nothing.
Bret Cahill
Ž
Ž
Guest
On 06/17/2013 06:08 AM, Bret Cahill wrote:
When I type "glow" into Google's search field, the first suggestion to
pop up is "glow in the dark paint".
There's already glow-in-the-dark-paint.In that case the LED, PV and battery would be printed up on paper and
cost almost nothing.
Different colors could be used to "paint" on the sides of buildings.
Bret Cahill
When I type "glow" into Google's search field, the first suggestion to
pop up is "glow in the dark paint".
B
Bret Cahill
Guest
It won't glow all night w/o UV or other illumination.In that case the LED, PV and battery would be printed up on paper and
cost almost nothing.
Different colors could be used to "paint" on the sides of buildings.
Bret Cahill
There's already glow-in-the-dark-paint.
When I type "glow" into Google's search field, the first suggestion to
pop up is "glow in the dark paint".
Rail roads won't light up their rolling stock with garden lights
because it would get stolen. Something the size of sand would be too
time consuming to vandalize. Graffitti artists would have to paint
the entire box car to blot it out.
Box car artists might even turn to using the PV_LED-battery sand
themselves. This stuff could be printed up on huge sheets and then
cut into little bits so all they'd need is some spray adhesive and a
leaf blower.
Bret Cahill
T
Tim Wescott
Guest
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 22:53:37 -0700, Bret Cahill wrote:
and start building your company.
--
My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook.
My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook.
Why am I not happy that they have found common ground?
Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Software
http://www.wescottdesign.com
Well, it looks like you have a business plan then. Time to stop postingA 100 microwatt PV panel shouldn't cost too much on a production
basis.
Bret Cahill
Solar calculators are cheap, as are those LED garden lights. A small
polysilicon PV probably costs pennies in production.
What's really surprising -- no one has even commented on this either --
is the size of the smallest micro electronic item is still as large or
larger than DARPA's insect drones.
It's as though everything sold to consumers _must_ have a key pad,
buttons or switches that require cm^2 of surface area.
How this mentality got grandfathered in is a mystery. Garden lights
have no buttons or size requirements so there is no reason not to
miniturize garden lights for Dollar Store "Glowing Sand" or confetti.
In that case the LED, PV and battery would be printed up on paper and
cost almost nothing.
and start building your company.
--
My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook.
My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook.
Why am I not happy that they have found common ground?
Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Software
http://www.wescottdesign.com
B
Bret Cahill
Guest
This is nothing less than the next phase of the microelectronicsA 100 microwatt PV panel shouldn't cost too much on a production
basis.
Bret Cahill
Solar calculators are cheap, as are those LED garden lights. A small
polysilicon PV probably costs pennies in production.
What's really surprising -- no one has even commented on this either --
is the size of the smallest micro electronic item is still as large or
larger than DARPA's insect drones.
It's as though everything sold to consumers _must_ have a key pad,
buttons or switches that require cm^2 of surface area.
How this mentality got grandfathered in is a mystery. Garden lights
have no buttons or size requirements so there is no reason not to
miniturize garden lights for Dollar Store "Glowing Sand" or confetti.
In that case the LED, PV and battery would be printed up on paper and
cost almost nothing.
Well, it looks like you have a business plan then.
revolution.
Bret Cahill
"A long habit of not thinking a thing _wrong_ gives it a superficial
appearance of being _right_ . . .."
-- The infamous incendiary Thomas Paine
J
John Larkin
Guest
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 09:13:21 -0700, Ž <Ž@yahoo.com> wrote:
sulfide.
People in remote villages could leave sheets of that outdoors and take them in
at night as usable illumination. No batteries to degrade.
I wish there was a really good glow-in-the-dark stuff, but it's probably
physically impossible.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com
Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom timing and laser controllers
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer
Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators
The strontium aluminate stuff is impressive, 10:1 or so better than zincOn 06/17/2013 06:08 AM, Bret Cahill wrote:
In that case the LED, PV and battery would be printed up on paper and
cost almost nothing.
Different colors could be used to "paint" on the sides of buildings.
Bret Cahill
There's already glow-in-the-dark-paint.
When I type "glow" into Google's search field, the first suggestion to
pop up is "glow in the dark paint".
sulfide.
People in remote villages could leave sheets of that outdoors and take them in
at night as usable illumination. No batteries to degrade.
I wish there was a really good glow-in-the-dark stuff, but it's probably
physically impossible.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com
Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom timing and laser controllers
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer
Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators
T
the letter K
Guest
On 06/17/2013 03:58 PM, John Larkin wrote:
Like your imaginary wind-powered car that tapped power off one wheel to
travel downwind faster than the wind that pushed it.
Just make it into an impedance matching exercise.I wish there was a really good glow-in-the-dark stuff, but it's probably
physically impossible.
Like your imaginary wind-powered car that tapped power off one wheel to
travel downwind faster than the wind that pushed it.
B
Bret Cahill
Guest
Scaling down garden lights might go as far as originally hoped for theIn that case the LED, PV and battery would be printed up on paper and
cost almost nothing.
Different colors could be used to "paint" on the sides of buildings.
Bret Cahill
There's already glow-in-the-dark-paint.
When I type "glow" into Google's search field, the first suggestion to
pop up is "glow in the dark paint".
The strontium aluminate stuff is impressive, 10:1 or so better than zinc
sulfide.
People in remote villages could leave sheets of that outdoors and take them in
at night as usable illumination. No batteries to degrade.
I wish there was a really good glow-in-the-dark stuff, but it's probably
physically impossible.
simple reason PV energy/day ~ surface area, while battery energy /day
~ volume.
Battery box energy density would have to be 25X higher than a garden
light at the 1mm characteristic length.
Bret Cahill
J
John Larkin
Guest
On Wed, 19 Jun 2013 20:49:32 -0700, the letter K <K@mail.com> wrote:
--
John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com
Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom timing and laser controllers
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer
Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators
The car wasn't mine and it wasn't imaginary. It was silly.On 06/17/2013 03:58 PM, John Larkin wrote:
I wish there was a really good glow-in-the-dark stuff, but it's probably
physically impossible.
Just make it into an impedance matching exercise.
Like your imaginary wind-powered car that tapped power off one wheel to
travel downwind faster than the wind that pushed it.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com
Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom timing and laser controllers
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer
Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators
B
Bret Cahill
Guest
Fun in the father of invention.I wish there was a really good glow-in-the-dark stuff, but it's probably
physically impossible.
Just make it into an impedance matching exercise.
Like your imaginary wind-powered car that tapped power off one wheel to
travel downwind faster than the wind that pushed it.
The car wasn't mine and it wasn't imaginary. It was silly.
Bret Cahill
B
Bret Cahill
Guest
I would ge even further and make it a quasi Law of ThermoIn that case the LED, PV and battery would be printed up on paper and
cost almost nothing.
Different colors could be used to "paint" on the sides of buildings.
Bret Cahill
There's already glow-in-the-dark-paint.
When I type "glow" into Google's search field, the first suggestion to
pop up is "glow in the dark paint".
The strontium aluminate stuff is impressive, 10:1 or so better than zinc
sulfide.
People in remote villages could leave sheets of that outdoors and take them in
at night as usable illumination. No batteries to degrade.
I wish there was a really good glow-in-the-dark stuff, but it's probably
physically impossible.
It's the same energy storage problem as micro garden lights. The only
material / battery / super cap that could store enough energy would be
a high explosive much higher than anything except nukes. Li-ion is
probably the limit and has been misleading as to future breakthroughs.
The only thing that would put out enough light all night or keep drive
trains turning would have to be air breathing.
Either you burn something in air or you sit in darkness at night.
Bret Cahill
J
John Larkin
Guest
On Thu, 20 Jun 2013 08:21:44 -0700 (PDT), Bret Cahill
<Bret_E_Cahill@yahoo.com> wrote:
to read a book or study for school or cook your dinner. And a D cell
isn't explosive.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom laser drivers and controllers
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME thermocouple, LVDT, synchro acquisition and simulation
<Bret_E_Cahill@yahoo.com> wrote:
A single D-cell would get you through the night, powering enough LEDsIn that case the LED, PV and battery would be printed up on paper and
cost almost nothing.
Different colors could be used to "paint" on the sides of buildings.
Bret Cahill
There's already glow-in-the-dark-paint.
When I type "glow" into Google's search field, the first suggestion to
pop up is "glow in the dark paint".
The strontium aluminate stuff is impressive, 10:1 or so better than zinc
sulfide.
People in remote villages could leave sheets of that outdoors and take them in
at night as usable illumination. No batteries to degrade.
I wish there was a really good glow-in-the-dark stuff, but it's probably
physically impossible.
I would ge even further and make it a quasi Law of Thermo
It's the same energy storage problem as micro garden lights. The only
material / battery / super cap that could store enough energy would be
a high explosive much higher than anything except nukes. Li-ion is
probably the limit and has been misleading as to future breakthroughs.
to read a book or study for school or cook your dinner. And a D cell
isn't explosive.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom laser drivers and controllers
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME thermocouple, LVDT, synchro acquisition and simulation
B
Bret Cahill
Guest
A book light maybe but cooking 200 gms of rice? No way.In that case the LED, PV and battery would be printed up on paper and >> >>> cost almost nothing. >> >> >> Different colors could be used to "paint" on the sides of buildings. >> >> >> Bret Cahill >> >> >There's already glow-in-the-dark-paint. >> >> >When I type "glow" into Google's search field, the first suggestion to >> >pop up is "glow in the dark paint". >> >> The strontium aluminate stuff is impressive, 10:1 or so better than zinc >> sulfide. >> >> People in remote villages could leave sheets of that outdoors and take them in >> at night as usable illumination. No batteries to degrade. >> >> I wish there was a really good glow-in-the-dark stuff, but it's probably >> physically impossible. > >I would ge even further and make it a quasi Law of Thermo > >It's the same energy storage problem as micro garden lights. The only >material / battery / super cap that could store enough energy would be >a high explosive much higher than anything except nukes. Li-ion is >probably the limit and has been misleading as to future breakthroughs.
A single D-cell would get you through the night, powering enough LEDs to read a book or study for school or cook your dinner. And a D cell isn't explosive.
Back to the OP issue of scaling down garden lights to coarse sand size ~ 1 mm^3:
The rechargeable AAA cell has a volume of 4300 mm^3 and the PV is 30 mm X 30 mm or 900 mm^2 of photo voltaic.
Reducing the PV area and battery volume by 900 results in a 5 mm^3 battery.
If the battery was printed 1 mm thick on a sheet the battery area would be 2.2 mm X 2.2 mm so if it existed cheap 3% efficiency PV would be just as good at keeping the light on all night.
2.2 mm X 2.2 mm X 2.2 mm cubes would be more like small pebbles than coarse sand and only put out 100 microwatts of light maximum.
Bret Cahill
S
Steve Gonedes
Guest
John Larkin <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> writes:
< I wish there was a really good glow-in-the-dark stuff, but it's probably
< physically impossible.
I'm being really goofy 2nite.
Clitocybe illudens, Omphalotus illudens, Omphalotus olearius [the names
are according to the google. I lost my field manual on macro/microscopic
identification of fungi].
They were previously know by their common name "laughing gem" - the
cultivars I am familiar with do not contain psilocybe - but then again I
said the same thing about Panaeolus subbalteatus ``belted cap''.
Apparently the google says that the Panaeolus subbalteatus is the most
common mushroom ingested for recreational purposes. I would have thought
the Stropharia family to be more popular - but you know how those goofy
mushroom people are.
Anycase, the laugyhing gem has been reported to "glow in the dark"
according the Mycological Association I was foolish enough to join.
There was one case where the mushroom was consumed and it was reported
that the person did not suffer from any toxic effects.
< I wish there was a really good glow-in-the-dark stuff, but it's probably
< physically impossible.
I'm being really goofy 2nite.
Clitocybe illudens, Omphalotus illudens, Omphalotus olearius [the names
are according to the google. I lost my field manual on macro/microscopic
identification of fungi].
They were previously know by their common name "laughing gem" - the
cultivars I am familiar with do not contain psilocybe - but then again I
said the same thing about Panaeolus subbalteatus ``belted cap''.
Apparently the google says that the Panaeolus subbalteatus is the most
common mushroom ingested for recreational purposes. I would have thought
the Stropharia family to be more popular - but you know how those goofy
mushroom people are.
Anycase, the laugyhing gem has been reported to "glow in the dark"
according the Mycological Association I was foolish enough to join.
There was one case where the mushroom was consumed and it was reported
that the person did not suffer from any toxic effects.
T
the letter K
Guest
On 06/27/2013 08:20 PM, Steve Gonedes wrote:
some really good stuff that also happens to glow? More investigation,
please.
Now I am puzzled. Is the laughing gem a really good glower, or is itJohn Larkin <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> writes:
I wish there was a really good glow-in-the-dark stuff, but it's probably
physically impossible.
I'm being really goofy 2nite.
Clitocybe illudens, Omphalotus illudens, Omphalotus olearius [the names
are according to the google. I lost my field manual on macro/microscopic
identification of fungi].
They were previously know by their common name "laughing gem" - the
cultivars I am familiar with do not contain psilocybe - but then again I
said the same thing about Panaeolus subbalteatus ``belted cap''.
Apparently the google says that the Panaeolus subbalteatus is the most
common mushroom ingested for recreational purposes. I would have thought
the Stropharia family to be more popular - but you know how those goofy
mushroom people are.
Anycase, the laugyhing gem has been reported to "glow in the dark"
according the Mycological Association I was foolish enough to join.
There was one case where the mushroom was consumed and it was reported
that the person did not suffer from any toxic effects.
some really good stuff that also happens to glow? More investigation,
please.