C
cm
Guest
Could someone tell how much amperage you would get using 700' of 0
copper wire from a 240V 200 amp service?
Thanks,
curt
copper wire from a 240V 200 amp service?
Thanks,
curt
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J
John Fields
Guest
On Mon, 03 May 2004 17:10:05 GMT, cm <hungry1@fastmail.fm> wrote:
That depends on the load's resistance, the ambient temperature, where
the wire is, and what it's covered with.
--
John Fields
---Could someone tell how much amperage you would get using 700' of 0
copper wire from a 240V 200 amp service?
That depends on the load's resistance, the ambient temperature, where
the wire is, and what it's covered with.
--
John Fields
H
hungry1
Guest
Do you mean that until I apply a load , there's no way to determine how
much load it will handle?
"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:nf0d905dcl64v9si6q6nuet7rnhb7afp6m@4ax.com...
much load it will handle?
"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:nf0d905dcl64v9si6q6nuet7rnhb7afp6m@4ax.com...
On Mon, 03 May 2004 17:10:05 GMT, cm <hungry1@fastmail.fm> wrote:
Could someone tell how much amperage you would get using 700' of 0
copper wire from a 240V 200 amp service?
---
That depends on the load's resistance, the ambient temperature, where
the wire is, and what it's covered with.
--
John Fields
J
John Fields
Guest
On Mon, 03 May 2004 18:06:16 GMT, "hungry1" <hungry1@fastmail.fm>
wrote:
No, what I mean is that unless you know what the load looks like, (and
all the rest of it) it's going to be impossible to determine what the
temperature rise in the cable is going to be and since the temperature
rise will cause the resistance of the wire to rise, the amount of
voltage it'll drop will increase, causing the voltage across the load
to decreaase by the amount dropped in the wire.
For example, if you've got 700' of wire, (350' out and 350' back, say)
since #0 AWG soft-drawn copper wire has a resistance of about 0.1 ohms
per 1000 feet, that'll be a resistance of 0.07 ohms.
Now, if what you've got on the end of the cable wants to see
240V ą10%, then the most the cable can drop is 24V, and since I = E/R,
the most current you can put through it will be 240V/0.07R ~ 3429
amps.
BUT... with 3429 amps flowing through the cable it'll be dissipating
P = I*E = 3429A * 24V = 82,296 watts, so that's about 118 watts per
foot. That cable's going to get HOT, and when it does its resistance
is going to increase, which will further reduce the voltage across,
and the current through, the load.
So, in order to be able to figure out what the wire's going to do, you
need to know what the load looks like so you can pick an appropriate
wire size. Also, you need to know where the cable's going to be and
what it's covered with so you can determine how well it'll be able to
get rid of the heat it's going to generate when current passes through
it.
--
John Fields
wrote:
"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:nf0d905dcl64v9si6q6nuet7rnhb7afp6m@4ax.com...
On Mon, 03 May 2004 17:10:05 GMT, cm <hungry1@fastmail.fm> wrote:
Could someone tell how much amperage you would get using 700' of 0
copper wire from a 240V 200 amp service?
---
That depends on the load's resistance, the ambient temperature, where
the wire is, and what it's covered with.
---Do you mean that until I apply a load , there's no way to determine how
much load it will handle?
No, what I mean is that unless you know what the load looks like, (and
all the rest of it) it's going to be impossible to determine what the
temperature rise in the cable is going to be and since the temperature
rise will cause the resistance of the wire to rise, the amount of
voltage it'll drop will increase, causing the voltage across the load
to decreaase by the amount dropped in the wire.
For example, if you've got 700' of wire, (350' out and 350' back, say)
since #0 AWG soft-drawn copper wire has a resistance of about 0.1 ohms
per 1000 feet, that'll be a resistance of 0.07 ohms.
Now, if what you've got on the end of the cable wants to see
240V ą10%, then the most the cable can drop is 24V, and since I = E/R,
the most current you can put through it will be 240V/0.07R ~ 3429
amps.
BUT... with 3429 amps flowing through the cable it'll be dissipating
P = I*E = 3429A * 24V = 82,296 watts, so that's about 118 watts per
foot. That cable's going to get HOT, and when it does its resistance
is going to increase, which will further reduce the voltage across,
and the current through, the load.
So, in order to be able to figure out what the wire's going to do, you
need to know what the load looks like so you can pick an appropriate
wire size. Also, you need to know where the cable's going to be and
what it's covered with so you can determine how well it'll be able to
get rid of the heat it's going to generate when current passes through
it.
--
John Fields
B
Bob Myers
Guest
"hungry1" <hungry1@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:53847c414338508304de8899edc4e73b@news.teranews.com...
back at the original question:
asking how much current would actually be drawn, and this is
impossible to say, as John noted. Assuming that "0 copper wire"
refers to a copper wire of the 0 AWG size (and not a wire that
contains "zero copper"!), the wire will very likely be capable of
carrying the full 200 A that the service is capable of providing
(actually, types T or TW at 0 AWG are only rated to 195A at
normal ambients, but let's call it close enough for the moment), but
who knows at this point how much will actually be drawn by
the load?
If this IS a question about capacity, then 00 AWG or might be
a better choice.
Bob M.
news:53847c414338508304de8899edc4e73b@news.teranews.com...
Of course not, but that's not what was asked. LookingDo you mean that until I apply a load , there's no way to determine how
much load it will handle?
back at the original question:
"How much amperage you would get" appears to be a questionCould someone tell how much amperage you would get using 700' of 0
copper wire from a 240V 200 amp service?
asking how much current would actually be drawn, and this is
impossible to say, as John noted. Assuming that "0 copper wire"
refers to a copper wire of the 0 AWG size (and not a wire that
contains "zero copper"!), the wire will very likely be capable of
carrying the full 200 A that the service is capable of providing
(actually, types T or TW at 0 AWG are only rated to 195A at
normal ambients, but let's call it close enough for the moment), but
who knows at this point how much will actually be drawn by
the load?
If this IS a question about capacity, then 00 AWG or might be
a better choice.
Bob M.
B
Bennet Williams
Guest
I don't have my NEC handbook handy, so I don't have your answer.
But, make sure you get a handbook!
The current carrying capacity of the cable is one thing, but what you
should size your feeder breaker is another. Back when I was doing
power distribution engineering, NEC guidelines stated that the feeder
breaker trip should be set at 25% less than cable's current capacity.
You must follow NEC guidelines to avoid fires.
BRW
On Mon, 03 May 2004 17:10:05 GMT, cm <hungry1@fastmail.fm> wrote:
But, make sure you get a handbook!
The current carrying capacity of the cable is one thing, but what you
should size your feeder breaker is another. Back when I was doing
power distribution engineering, NEC guidelines stated that the feeder
breaker trip should be set at 25% less than cable's current capacity.
You must follow NEC guidelines to avoid fires.
BRW
On Mon, 03 May 2004 17:10:05 GMT, cm <hungry1@fastmail.fm> wrote:
Could someone tell how much amperage you would get using 700' of 0
copper wire from a 240V 200 amp service?
Thanks,
curt
T
Tony Newman
Guest
On Mon, 03 May 2004 14:33:01 -0500, John Fields wrote:
dropping the entire 240 volts across the wire resistance. The amperage
would come out to about 343 amps to get a 24 volt drop. Still, losing
about 8200 watts in wire resistance is not something to ignore.
Practically speaking, 180 amps would be about the heaviest load you'd
want to put on a 200 amp circuit, the loss would be (E=I*R) 180 * .07 12.6 volts. This would have the wire dissapating 2268 watts over 700
feet or about 3.25 watts per foot. The wire would get warm, but should
stay tolerable. There would also be a 6.3 volt difference between the
neutral and "real" ground at the load, which might cause another set of
problems.
For the original poster... The maximum amperage you could get after
going through 700 feet of 0 AWG wire comming from a 200 amp service, is
200 amps. Any more would trip the circuit breaker (if pushed to the
full 200 amps, you would get occasional trips anyway). And remember,
as John pointed out, you have to figure the full round-trip travel the
electricity takes. If you are really 700 feet from the service panel,
you are running through 1400 feet of wire. Maybe the real question is
how much voltage loss can your load stand, and how much do you want to
pay to heat the wires. Going to a heavier wire size is a one-time
expense. Losing energy in the wires costs you every time you pay your
electricity bill.
--
Tony Newman <tonyn@efn.org>
Springfield, OR
USA
Perhaps a nitpick, but I think you shifted from a 24 volt drop toFor example, if you've got 700' of wire, (350' out and 350' back, say)
since #0 AWG soft-drawn copper wire has a resistance of about 0.1 ohms
per 1000 feet, that'll be a resistance of 0.07 ohms.
Now, if what you've got on the end of the cable wants to see
240V ą10%, then the most the cable can drop is 24V, and since I = E/R,
the most current you can put through it will be 240V/0.07R ~ 3429
amps.
BUT... with 3429 amps flowing through the cable it'll be dissipating
P = I*E = 3429A * 24V = 82,296 watts, so that's about 118 watts per
foot. That cable's going to get HOT, and when it does its resistance
is going to increase, which will further reduce the voltage across,
and the current through, the load.
dropping the entire 240 volts across the wire resistance. The amperage
would come out to about 343 amps to get a 24 volt drop. Still, losing
about 8200 watts in wire resistance is not something to ignore.
Practically speaking, 180 amps would be about the heaviest load you'd
want to put on a 200 amp circuit, the loss would be (E=I*R) 180 * .07 12.6 volts. This would have the wire dissapating 2268 watts over 700
feet or about 3.25 watts per foot. The wire would get warm, but should
stay tolerable. There would also be a 6.3 volt difference between the
neutral and "real" ground at the load, which might cause another set of
problems.
For the original poster... The maximum amperage you could get after
going through 700 feet of 0 AWG wire comming from a 200 amp service, is
200 amps. Any more would trip the circuit breaker (if pushed to the
full 200 amps, you would get occasional trips anyway). And remember,
as John pointed out, you have to figure the full round-trip travel the
electricity takes. If you are really 700 feet from the service panel,
you are running through 1400 feet of wire. Maybe the real question is
how much voltage loss can your load stand, and how much do you want to
pay to heat the wires. Going to a heavier wire size is a one-time
expense. Losing energy in the wires costs you every time you pay your
electricity bill.
--
Tony Newman <tonyn@efn.org>
Springfield, OR
USA
H
hungry1
Guest
Maybe I need to give more details and revise my question.
What size wire would one need to run service to 10 homes in a distance of
700'???
Thanks,
curt
"Bennet Williams" <brwilliams@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:31rd90h70rqu579349ra8vbhf9h1ml5mj5@4ax.com...
What size wire would one need to run service to 10 homes in a distance of
700'???
Thanks,
curt
"Bennet Williams" <brwilliams@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:31rd90h70rqu579349ra8vbhf9h1ml5mj5@4ax.com...
I don't have my NEC handbook handy, so I don't have your answer.
But, make sure you get a handbook!
The current carrying capacity of the cable is one thing, but what you
should size your feeder breaker is another. Back when I was doing
power distribution engineering, NEC guidelines stated that the feeder
breaker trip should be set at 25% less than cable's current capacity.
You must follow NEC guidelines to avoid fires.
BRW
On Mon, 03 May 2004 17:10:05 GMT, cm <hungry1@fastmail.fm> wrote:
Could someone tell how much amperage you would get using 700' of 0
copper wire from a 240V 200 amp service?
Thanks,
curt
J
John Fields
Guest
On Mon, 03 May 2004 23:40:29 -0700 (PDT), "Tony Newman"
<tonyn@efn.org> wrote:
--
John Fields
<tonyn@efn.org> wrote:
Not a nitpick at all; a good catch. Thanks!Perhaps a nitpick, but I think you shifted from a 24 volt drop to
dropping the entire 240 volts across the wire resistance.
---
--
John Fields
B
Bob Myers
Guest
"hungry1" <hungry1@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:065937319b797336bb3ab9b9c2a39aed@news.teranews.com...
when you speak of "200 A service" in this case, you mean that
EACH HOME has a 200 A service, right? Splitting 200 A among
10 homes would be silly...
Given that, what you're REALLY asking is what you need to handle
a total of 2000A max. split among 10 homes - but now the topology
of the system becomes important. Are these 10 homes all strung
out in a line (which means that the connection from the "main" supply
to the first home has to be able to carry the full 2000 A, the next
one 1800A, and so forth) or are they in a "star" configuration from one
central point, or what? And do you really intend to run all ten off the
same point, or will they be fed from a higher voltage (lower current)
line and then have transformers, either for each individual connection
or shared among some smaller groups within the 10-home total?
The real point here is that - if you have to ask this question, I think that
you are already WAY over your head in terms of tackling this sort of
project. Either that, or you're asking us to do your homework for you.
Bob M.
news:065937319b797336bb3ab9b9c2a39aed@news.teranews.com...
That's a completely different question! And I have to assume thatMaybe I need to give more details and revise my question.
What size wire would one need to run service to 10 homes in a distance of
700'???
when you speak of "200 A service" in this case, you mean that
EACH HOME has a 200 A service, right? Splitting 200 A among
10 homes would be silly...
Given that, what you're REALLY asking is what you need to handle
a total of 2000A max. split among 10 homes - but now the topology
of the system becomes important. Are these 10 homes all strung
out in a line (which means that the connection from the "main" supply
to the first home has to be able to carry the full 2000 A, the next
one 1800A, and so forth) or are they in a "star" configuration from one
central point, or what? And do you really intend to run all ten off the
same point, or will they be fed from a higher voltage (lower current)
line and then have transformers, either for each individual connection
or shared among some smaller groups within the 10-home total?
The real point here is that - if you have to ask this question, I think that
you are already WAY over your head in terms of tackling this sort of
project. Either that, or you're asking us to do your homework for you.
Bob M.
H
hungry1
Guest
Sorry if I offended anyone, with my questions, I am trying to help people
get electric to their homes in my area with a generator that outputs
200amps.We can get single 0 copper wire where we are. but the information
that I need is NOT available to my knowledge. We are in a remote area of a
different country from the USA.
I just thought this was the place that I might get some info to help me. I
will not bother you guys to "do my homework for me anymore".
Thanks,
curt
"Bob Myers" <nospamplease@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:%NPlc.841$WP1.412@news.cpqcorp.net...
get electric to their homes in my area with a generator that outputs
200amps.We can get single 0 copper wire where we are. but the information
that I need is NOT available to my knowledge. We are in a remote area of a
different country from the USA.
I just thought this was the place that I might get some info to help me. I
will not bother you guys to "do my homework for me anymore".
Thanks,
curt
"Bob Myers" <nospamplease@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:%NPlc.841$WP1.412@news.cpqcorp.net...
"hungry1" <hungry1@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:065937319b797336bb3ab9b9c2a39aed@news.teranews.com...
Maybe I need to give more details and revise my question.
What size wire would one need to run service to 10 homes in a distance
of
700'???
That's a completely different question! And I have to assume that
when you speak of "200 A service" in this case, you mean that
EACH HOME has a 200 A service, right? Splitting 200 A among
10 homes would be silly...
Given that, what you're REALLY asking is what you need to handle
a total of 2000A max. split among 10 homes - but now the topology
of the system becomes important. Are these 10 homes all strung
out in a line (which means that the connection from the "main" supply
to the first home has to be able to carry the full 2000 A, the next
one 1800A, and so forth) or are they in a "star" configuration from one
central point, or what? And do you really intend to run all ten off the
same point, or will they be fed from a higher voltage (lower current)
line and then have transformers, either for each individual connection
or shared among some smaller groups within the 10-home total?
The real point here is that - if you have to ask this question, I think
that
you are already WAY over your head in terms of tackling this sort of
project. Either that, or you're asking us to do your homework for you.
Bob M.
B
Bob Myers
Guest
"hungry1" <hungry1@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:4d9ee1a40b82d567c7cf86356e9b7f5e@news.teranews.com...
0 AWG copper wire is rated to at least 195 A for about any type
in common use, so it has sufficient capacity. You wouldn't
want to run all 10 homes "in series" anyway, as there would be
excessive drop in the wire and - well, this just isn't the most
efficient way to do this. The best thing to do would be to
run individual lines from the generator to each home, but that is
rarely practical. Most likely, your best bet would be to place the
generator so that it is as centrally-located as possible,
and then run branches from there to groups of homes or individual
homes as needed - in short, try to spread the total load, and distance,
as evenly as you can among several branches. If you have to have
one or more homes signficantly farther away from the generator than
others, try to minimize the load on that branch - in other words, you
can trade the load in any given branch for the length of that branch,
so that no one sees an excessive drop. Single branches to each
home, if they're all going to be limited to 20A each, could do with
wire a good deal smaller than 0 AWG, even if each branch were
700' long. 2 AWG would be acceptable for a run that long, for
instance, and smaller sizes would be similarly acceptable for
shorter distances (you could drop down to 4 AWG all around
if the generator were centrally located within a 700' overall
circle, such that no load were farther away than 350', and
you'd still see <= a 2% drop). (These figures are for copper
wire only - if you were using aluminum, which has other problems,
you'd need larger wire in all cases. All of this information, by the
way, is pretty widely available on the web.)
Having said that...20A/home (assuming we're talking about 220
or 240 V service, a bit over 2 kW) isn't a whole lot by most
standards, but I would certainly admit that it's better than no
electricity at all. You would want to provide breakers at both the
generator and at the individual homes, of course. And PLEASE note
that even if this is a "different country from the USA" - there ARE
still such things as electrical building and safety codes, and they
exist for a very good reason. Electricity can be very dangerous
stuff, and is not to be played around with. If you don't have access
to such basic information as the current capacity of copper wire,
then I would have to question whether or not you have sufficient
expertise to do what you are proposing properly and safely. It
IS nice to be able to have electric lights and such, but it's far more
important that no one gets killed or has their home burned down
in the process of getting those things. In short, I'd have to
strongly advise against trying to install this sort of system yourself
unless you can get some expert assistance.
Bob M.
news:4d9ee1a40b82d567c7cf86356e9b7f5e@news.teranews.com...
OK, with THAT information provided -Sorry if I offended anyone, with my questions, I am trying to help people
get electric to their homes in my area with a generator that outputs
200amps.We can get single 0 copper wire where we are. but the information
that I need is NOT available to my knowledge.
0 AWG copper wire is rated to at least 195 A for about any type
in common use, so it has sufficient capacity. You wouldn't
want to run all 10 homes "in series" anyway, as there would be
excessive drop in the wire and - well, this just isn't the most
efficient way to do this. The best thing to do would be to
run individual lines from the generator to each home, but that is
rarely practical. Most likely, your best bet would be to place the
generator so that it is as centrally-located as possible,
and then run branches from there to groups of homes or individual
homes as needed - in short, try to spread the total load, and distance,
as evenly as you can among several branches. If you have to have
one or more homes signficantly farther away from the generator than
others, try to minimize the load on that branch - in other words, you
can trade the load in any given branch for the length of that branch,
so that no one sees an excessive drop. Single branches to each
home, if they're all going to be limited to 20A each, could do with
wire a good deal smaller than 0 AWG, even if each branch were
700' long. 2 AWG would be acceptable for a run that long, for
instance, and smaller sizes would be similarly acceptable for
shorter distances (you could drop down to 4 AWG all around
if the generator were centrally located within a 700' overall
circle, such that no load were farther away than 350', and
you'd still see <= a 2% drop). (These figures are for copper
wire only - if you were using aluminum, which has other problems,
you'd need larger wire in all cases. All of this information, by the
way, is pretty widely available on the web.)
Having said that...20A/home (assuming we're talking about 220
or 240 V service, a bit over 2 kW) isn't a whole lot by most
standards, but I would certainly admit that it's better than no
electricity at all. You would want to provide breakers at both the
generator and at the individual homes, of course. And PLEASE note
that even if this is a "different country from the USA" - there ARE
still such things as electrical building and safety codes, and they
exist for a very good reason. Electricity can be very dangerous
stuff, and is not to be played around with. If you don't have access
to such basic information as the current capacity of copper wire,
then I would have to question whether or not you have sufficient
expertise to do what you are proposing properly and safely. It
IS nice to be able to have electric lights and such, but it's far more
important that no one gets killed or has their home burned down
in the process of getting those things. In short, I'd have to
strongly advise against trying to install this sort of system yourself
unless you can get some expert assistance.
Bob M.
H
hungry1
Guest
I am on an island that already has some grid electric, and have been
promised to one day have it where I live.
Until then, I can get by with the information you gave me.I really
appreciate it!
Thank again,
curt
"Bob Myers" <nospamplease@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:F8bmc.931$ZS2.650@news.cpqcorp.net...
promised to one day have it where I live.
Until then, I can get by with the information you gave me.I really
appreciate it!
Thank again,
curt
"Bob Myers" <nospamplease@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:F8bmc.931$ZS2.650@news.cpqcorp.net...
"hungry1" <hungry1@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:4d9ee1a40b82d567c7cf86356e9b7f5e@news.teranews.com...
Sorry if I offended anyone, with my questions, I am trying to help
people
get electric to their homes in my area with a generator that outputs
200amps.We can get single 0 copper wire where we are. but the
information
that I need is NOT available to my knowledge.
OK, with THAT information provided -
0 AWG copper wire is rated to at least 195 A for about any type
in common use, so it has sufficient capacity. You wouldn't
want to run all 10 homes "in series" anyway, as there would be
excessive drop in the wire and - well, this just isn't the most
efficient way to do this. The best thing to do would be to
run individual lines from the generator to each home, but that is
rarely practical. Most likely, your best bet would be to place the
generator so that it is as centrally-located as possible,
and then run branches from there to groups of homes or individual
homes as needed - in short, try to spread the total load, and distance,
as evenly as you can among several branches. If you have to have
one or more homes signficantly farther away from the generator than
others, try to minimize the load on that branch - in other words, you
can trade the load in any given branch for the length of that branch,
so that no one sees an excessive drop. Single branches to each
home, if they're all going to be limited to 20A each, could do with
wire a good deal smaller than 0 AWG, even if each branch were
700' long. 2 AWG would be acceptable for a run that long, for
instance, and smaller sizes would be similarly acceptable for
shorter distances (you could drop down to 4 AWG all around
if the generator were centrally located within a 700' overall
circle, such that no load were farther away than 350', and
you'd still see <= a 2% drop). (These figures are for copper
wire only - if you were using aluminum, which has other problems,
you'd need larger wire in all cases. All of this information, by the
way, is pretty widely available on the web.)
Having said that...20A/home (assuming we're talking about 220
or 240 V service, a bit over 2 kW) isn't a whole lot by most
standards, but I would certainly admit that it's better than no
electricity at all. You would want to provide breakers at both the
generator and at the individual homes, of course. And PLEASE note
that even if this is a "different country from the USA" - there ARE
still such things as electrical building and safety codes, and they
exist for a very good reason. Electricity can be very dangerous
stuff, and is not to be played around with. If you don't have access
to such basic information as the current capacity of copper wire,
then I would have to question whether or not you have sufficient
expertise to do what you are proposing properly and safely. It
IS nice to be able to have electric lights and such, but it's far more
important that no one gets killed or has their home burned down
in the process of getting those things. In short, I'd have to
strongly advise against trying to install this sort of system yourself
unless you can get some expert assistance.
Bob M.